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PaulArthurs
29-04-2012, 03:05 PM
No doubt you've seen the clear statement (http://www.scouts.org.uk/noticeboard/440/no-plans-to-change-scout-promise) from Wayne Bulpitt, UK Chief Commissioner that "We have absolutely no plans to make changes to our Scout Promise"

It is interesting that Graham Haddick, Chief Commissioner of Scotland, is quoted in the media today (http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2012/04/25/scout-promise-overhall-for-athiests-and-republicans/) as saying "the organisation, is taking a “hard look” at the oath amid growing pressure from parents" and in the Daily Record (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2012/04/26/pledge-to-honour-god-and-queen-could-be-cut-from-boy-scouts-pledge-scottish-leader-reveals-86908-23838211/) "taking a hard look at the oath to make it more inclusive."

Is Scotland looking to break away from The Scout Association and WOSM? Or is this simply poor reporting by the media?

big chris
29-04-2012, 03:13 PM
I think this HQ document suggests the a possible change to the promise is being considered


Why does God still feature in the Promise? TSA is a values-based organisation that encourages young people to develop
spiritually. However, Scouting does not identify itself with any one religion but works with adults and young people from
every culture, background and religion. The phrase ‘to do my duty to God’, that features in the Promise, may therefore
mean a belief in a ‘higher being’ that is not linked to Christianity or another main faith. Consequently, we offer different
versions of the Promise, which are outlined in Factsheet FS322016. TSA believes that in order to develop spiritually, adults
and young people should be helped to: develop an inner discipline and training; be involved in corporate (group) activities
with others; understand the world around them; help to create a more tolerant and caring society; and discover the need
for prayer and worship, both personal and shared. See Factsheet FS322021 for more details.

Wayne Bulpitt (UK Chief Commissioner) adds: be aware that recommendations were agreed by the Board for consultation
on this. Do not yet promote discussion, but respond: ‘As part of the ongoing work regarding the Fundamentals of
Scouting, the Operations sub-Committee has considered a report from the working group and will be considering how
best to consult on these matters’ and, if you are pushed further, ‘no changes to the Law and Promise are presently being
considered.’

i added the bold.

the scots chap seems to have broken the request "Do not yet promote discussion, " but it def looks like the board is considering changes.

Bushfella
29-04-2012, 04:13 PM
Wayne Bulpitt (UK Chief Commissioner) adds: be aware that recommendations were agreed by the Board for consultation
on this. Do not yet promote discussion, but respond: ‘As part of the ongoing work regarding the Fundamentals of
Scouting, the Operations sub-Committee has considered a report from the working group and will be considering how
best to consult on these matters’ and, if you are pushed further, ‘no changes to the Law and Promise are presently being
considered.’

So they are going to consult, but no changes are being considered... So why consult?

big chris
29-04-2012, 04:15 PM
So they are going to consult, but no changes are being considered... So why consult?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Psilocybe.zapotecorum.1.jpg/800px-Psilocybe.zapotecorum.1.jpg

Bushfella
29-04-2012, 04:17 PM
ROTFLMHO.

The old kept in dark and fed on... routine.

Alfbranch
29-04-2012, 04:48 PM
I cant be bothered to follow all of the links but this is a bit of a mess from what I have read.

Just think how many local rules and myths this can create.

shiftypete
29-04-2012, 05:01 PM
We don't have an oath anyway we have a promise which is a very different thing

Tony Ransley
29-04-2012, 05:41 PM
It is interesting that Graham Haddick, Chief Commissioner of Scotland, is quoted in the media today (http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2012/04/25/scout-promise-overhall-for-athiests-and-republicans/) as saying "the organisation, is taking a “hard look” at the oath amid growing pressure from parents"

What a pity it is reported as growing pressure from parents instead of because The Movement/our members think it is the right thing to do.

Y.I.s. Tony

jimjam
29-04-2012, 05:46 PM
What a pity it is reported as growing pressure from parents instead of because The Movement/our members think it is the right thing to do.

Y.I.s. Tony

Perhaps we could have a poll on here to see what other escouters think

The Hairy One
29-04-2012, 06:13 PM
Perhaps we could have a poll on here to see what other escouters think
That has been asked many times, but I seem to recall there was one sometime in the lat couple of years. I'll try a search.

------ Update --- The Following was Added within 30 Minutes of the above ---


That has been asked many times, but I seem to recall there was one sometime in the lat couple of years. I'll try a search.
This was the one, more than a couple of years though.

http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/threads/6675-Should-Athiests-Be-Allowed-to-Be-Leaders?highlight=poll (http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/threads/6675-Should-Athiests-Be-Allowed-to-Be-Leaders?highlight=poll)

jimjam
29-04-2012, 06:19 PM
It's kind of the same thing, but I meant whether the promise should be changed rather than whether athiests should be able to become leaders

Hathi_Cambridge
29-04-2012, 06:23 PM
No doubt you've seen the clear statement (http://www.scouts.org.uk/noticeboard/440/no-plans-to-change-scout-promise) from Wayne Bulpitt, UK Chief Commissioner that [I]"We have absolutely no plans to make changes to our Scout Promise"


No plan to.... is not the same as no intention to....

More importantly the linked article does not say whether discussions of the promise are planned/under consideration/taking place....

Daniel
29-04-2012, 06:50 PM
No plans to change Scout Promise22/04/2012
Members of the Movement may have seen the reports in today's Sunday Times suggesting that the Movement has plans to change the Scout Promise.
We are disappointed that this statement has been made especially as when we spoke to a journalist who contacted us we made it clear that the suggestions were without any basis in fact.
Wayne Bulpitt, the UK Chief Commissioner, has reconfirmed today that:
'We have absolutely no plans to make changes to our Scout Promise. Scouting has been offering development opportunities to young people from across the United Kingdom for over 100 years within the framework of our Promise and Law.'
'We are proud that the Queen is our Patron, the Duke of Kent is our President, and that the Duchess of Cambridge has recently become a volunteer with Scouting. We continue to offer adventure and development opportunities to our growing membership of over 525,000 young people and adults.'

Information posted last week, for those who have not clicked the link in the first post.

fmountford
29-04-2012, 06:57 PM
Information posted last week, for those who have not clicked the link in the first post.


That was before today's news links, be interesting t know whether Graham actually said that or the press have twisted his words.

Alfbranch
29-04-2012, 07:26 PM
That was before today's news links, be interesting t know whether Graham actually said that or the press have twisted his words.

That seems likely to me as the word oath pops up and a national commissioner is not likely to say oath.

fmountford
29-04-2012, 07:41 PM
That seems likely to me as the word oath pops up and a national commissioner is not likely to say oath.

Exactly, no one uses that word in Scouting

Tony Ransley
29-04-2012, 07:50 PM
That seems likely to me as the word oath pops up and a national commissioner is not likely to say oath.

No plans to change the scout promise but may by plans to introduce an alternative to the scout promise, a scout oath. One can hope.

Y.I.S. Tony

Richard
29-04-2012, 11:26 PM
Well I'm no longer on the Scottish Board, but Scotland isn't breaking away.

And before someone mentions independence, we'll see what happens in the referendum 1st.

DuncanHill
30-04-2012, 07:08 AM
At the GSL/DC briefing days they showed the Scottish Youth Manifesto (I think that's what it was called). One of the things in it I particularly recall was young people saying that they hoped the Movement would move on the God thing. After the film was shewn, one of the bods running the awayday "reassured" us that some of the things the young people had been asking for would never happen.