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Thread: Squirrels!!!!

  1. #46
    Simba Ian Mallett's Avatar
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    The following is on page 18 of Agreeing Scouting's Vision Towards 2018, the link is on here somewhere, where it lists the variation in consultation responses due to differing geography:

    "In Northern Ireland reference was made to needing to maintain collaborative relationships with Scouting Ireland and to the informal provision by some Groups for young people pre-Beavers."

    UK HQ is therefore aware of Squirrels, but doesn't appear likley to do anything to expand them as far as I can see.
    Simba (my daughter wouldn't let me be Rafiki, and now she's an explorer)
    GSL
    Birstall Scout Group
    West Yorkshire

  2. #47
    is it senior or very old TRH's Avatar
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    Thanks Ian and Peter but Squirrels in Northern Ireland is now anything but informal. I am still surprised at Waynes response and can only guess that you will follow us soon enough as you did with Beavers.

    ASL, 81st St Bartholomews (South Belfast)

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  3. #48
    Senior Member 4thDarwin Akela's Avatar
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    What info is out there,Badges,programe idears and stuff.
    carl
    CSL 4th Melton Mowbray Darwin,

  4. #49
    Simba Ian Mallett's Avatar
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    Is this called filling the void in an increasingly secular society, caused by the demise of so much church based provision that used to exist? Or did Mum oops Parents & Tots use to stop at 4 anyway, and some families are now looking for something to bridge the gap to beavers?
    Simba (my daughter wouldn't let me be Rafiki, and now she's an explorer)
    GSL
    Birstall Scout Group
    West Yorkshire

  5. #50
    Senior Member lanajay's Avatar
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    I have to be honest and say I think the idea of a pre-beavers section is a great idea - even if only to introduce the kids to scouting. Rainbows in the UK starts at age 5 and by the time they come to brownies at age 7 they know what expect and seem to fit in quicker than someone coming straight to brownies.

    I think a pre-beavers section is a great idea and helps to encourage the concept of scouting at an early age - hopefully setting them up for a long journey within scouting.

    However, I do agree with those who say focussing on leaders for current sections first. To overcome this and solve both issues I think the starting age for beavers should be lowered to 5.
    Blue Beaver - 35th Ayrshire Beavers

    Re-Opened 24th August 2009

  6. #51
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanajay View Post
    However, I do agree with those who say focussing on leaders for current sections first. To overcome this and solve both issues I think the starting age for beavers should be lowered to 5.
    Beavers is the most oversubscribed section IIRC - lets not make it even more oversubscribed!
    Chris Hawes, ASL and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group; Webmaster, Watford North Scout District.
    Blogger, be.PREPARED and web designer of free Scouting templates, Scouting Themes 4 WordPress.


  7. #52
    Assistant ESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanajay View Post
    However, I do agree with those who say focussing on leaders for current sections first. To overcome this and solve both issues I think the starting age for beavers should be lowered to 5.
    I don't think that would help the Leader situation either as I for one would stop helping with Beavers if that happened and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one. I find the 5 3/4 year olds bad enough never mind any younger than that thanks

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Friday ESU & ABSL and Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.co.uk

    Bookings Secretary - Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  8. #53
    CSL/ASL - Sea Scouts Nodster's Avatar
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    Back before Beavers were in the UK, they had them in Northern Ireland and Canada. Our Group started Beaver scouting in the UK 3 to 4 years before it's official launch in the UK.

    I think Squirls would be a great idea for the UK. We were attucally talking about this concept a few years ago within our group, and having 2 pre-beaver section the first called "Glimmers" (for "not even born yet" to 4yr old!) and "Gleams" (for 4-6).
    Mowgli/Noddy!

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  9. #54
    No mountain too high PeterSheppard's Avatar
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    No no no no no no and more no!!

    Absolutely no way should we reduce the starting age any further, or introduce even younger sections! Beavers is already scraping the barrel as far as keeping with the concept of Scouting goes. Any lower and I just can't see how it fits in with what Scouting is supposed to do!

    "Originally B-P. had envisaged Scouting as a movement for boys between the ages of 11 and 18"

    Wolf Cubs at the time was created because boys wanted to join in with their older brothers; clearly a youth-led demand!

    However, its swung the other way, and the vast majority of our membership is under the age of 11. We are already labelled from the outside as a kids organisation, rather than a movement for adolescents, with the phrase "aren't you too old for scouts" being banded all over the place.

    Instead of looking to further dumb down the movement, we should be placing effort into the development of the older sections, and fulfilling our fundamental principles - the "development of young people in achieving their full physical, intellectual, social and spiritual potential, as individuals, as responsible citizens and as members of their local, national and international communities".

    We need to concentrate on ensuring that young people progress through the movement, from Scouts into Explorers and on to Network. And to gaining Queen's Scout Awards.

    If we were to judge success on the number of people starting the movement, and subsequently gaining the top award, we would be looking at a fraction of a percent. With those sorts of figures speaking for themselves, can we really call ourselves successful?

    I can say wholeheartedly that if we were to lower the joining age range any further, I believe we would stop being a youth movement, and firmly be a childrens/babysitting organisation.
    Area Scout Network Commissioner/AAC Explorers - Gwent

    "Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap... but by the seeds you plant"

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nodster View Post
    ...I think Squirls would be a great idea for the UK. We were attucally talking about this concept a few years ago within our group, and having 2 pre-beaver section the first called "Glimmers" (for "not even born yet" to 4yr old!) and "Gleams" (for 4-6).
    Never! Never! Never! Never!

    We are the Scouts, not a ruddy mothers and toddlers group! IMHO Beavers was a step too far. The fight is on to keep the older age group. We don't need any more at the bottom. What self-respecting 15 year old wants to belong to an organisation where the average age of membership is about six and a half?

    This is Scouting, not 'Tiny Tots Anonymous'!!!

  11. #56
    Senior Member Jeebie's Avatar
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    Thre's no way my three would have been ready to start any younger than 5 3/4. the middle and youngest wanted to but that was because they saw their brother going out.

    I've worked with children between the ags of 2 and 11 and, personally, any younger than6 would be hard to instill what scouting is all about - it's hard enough with beavers sometimes

    If it's working well in Ireland, then good for you and keep it up.

    Would like to see programmes etc and what goals/badges they work towards to prep them for beavers and onward...


    Christine Harvey
    BSL 1st Highweek
    Teignbridge
    Devon

  12. #57
    is it senior or very old TRH's Avatar
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    FYI

    Squirrel Promise
    I promise to be a good squirrel and to love God

    ASL, 81st St Bartholomews (South Belfast)

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  13. #58
    Senior Member Doug in Canada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSheppard View Post
    I can say wholeheartedly that if we were to lower the joining age range any further, I believe we would stop being a youth movement, and firmly be a childrens/babysitting organisation.
    Beavers in Canada are 5-7 year olds. Fits with our school system where kids start school at 5. I don't believe that we would be considered a childrens organization and the Beavers do age appropriate Scouting activities. Of course it depends on the leadership teams and some colonies only do crafts and nothing remotely scouting but I know of cub and scout sections where the same could be said!
    Akela - 6th Burlington Cub Pack

    www.6thburlingtoncubs.org

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