non-scouting group pretending to be a scout group

**fredblogs** · 19-09-2010, 02:47 PM

Hello,

I'm already a member on here, but posting under a new account to protect the group. We recieved a bill from x campsite asking for a deposit from someone claiming to be from my scout group, but no one in the group booked it. One of the leaders then got a phone call from the campsite about the group and they said that they weren't the group and the campsite then asked whether the group should be thrown off or not, as far as I know they were thrown off the site. We then did some research and found it was a local sports coach who was pretending to be us, after using google, and had some how managed to get contact details for the real people. Is there anything which groups or TSA could do to stop this?

**wullie** · 19-09-2010, 02:50 PM

Well its verging on fraud. I dont know what you can do about but I would get in touch with police as you dont know what else they could use your details for. Get in touch with your District or Region and get their lawyers advise on what do do as well. Your good name as a group could be ruined by any actions this other group take.

**Raksha** · 19-09-2010, 02:53 PM

Camp sites should take membership number of person booking at time of booking and check the actual membership cards of people booking on arrival at site. We all carry enough stuff with us, the membership card is not a lot extra to take (mine is in my purse all the time anyway)

**Kastor** · 19-09-2010, 03:34 PM

I would think you should send the coach a strongly worded letter from your GSL/DC telling him in no uncertain terms not to do it again or he will be reported to the police and whatever the governing body he reports to. You could metion it to the Info Centre in case they want to send a "legal" threat as well.

**DuncanHill** · 19-09-2010, 03:52 PM

I'd definitely tell both the police and the governing body of the sports coach. What he's doing is obtaining goods or services by deception. It's unlikely that his governing body would regard such behaviour as acceptable, and god knows what else he's getting up to while pretending to be something he isn't.

**Dramatist** · 19-09-2010, 03:56 PM

Sorry fredblogs,

I am being remarkably thick here, I think.

You are saying that a local Sports Coach booked a Scout Campsite by pretending to be a leader from your Scout Group? Somehow, the coach and his YP then managed to access the site without ever having paid a deposit? The site then wrote to you asking for the deposit? (after the sports lot had arrived?). On discovering that the sports lot weren't Scouts they then threw them off the site?

Somehow I am reading this wrong. It isn't making sense.

If the Sports coach was trying to use the site fraudulently, the last thing he would do would be to forget to send them a deposit as it would be a sure way of being rumbled. If he did turn up without paying the deposit, he would then have probably paid it on the spot or done anything to stop the site contacting anyone in your group before he and his lot had left and disappeared into the wide blue yonder leaving your group to pick up the remaining balance of the bill.

Is there any chance that you can clarify the sequence of events?

If the bottom line is that the coach was trying to use a Scout Campsite AND trick your group into paying for it then it is criminal fraud - contact the Police. If, however, he was just trying to get away with using a Scout Site without proper permission from the Scouts then, as far as I can see, no crime has been committed and any legal challenge would be Civil and not worth it BUT stiff letters from the SA to his Sports Club senior management are in order.

If the latter is the case then the Site needs to tighten up on its proceedures. Insisting on a deposit and a covering letter BEFORE the event would have stopped it.

**fredblogs** · 19-09-2010, 04:02 PM

Dramatist, we just recieved the email asking for a deposit, and a phonecall, I'm not sure in what order. They did manage to get onto the site and were camping, we didn't pay any money, so we're guessing they did. We think that he was justing trying to use the scout campsite.

**Sparks** · 19-09-2010, 04:09 PM

What else have they been doing in the name of Scouting / your troop!

I hope the site is doing something about it, obviously it needs to look at its admission procedures, but surly they would have smelt a rat when no one turned up in some form of uniform.

**Dramatist** · 19-09-2010, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by fredblogs

Dramatist, we just recieved the email asking for a deposit, and a phonecall, I'm not sure in what order. They did manage to get onto the site and were camping, we didn't pay any money, so we're guessing they did. We think that he was justing trying to use the scout campsite.

Sounds to me like the Sports Coach needs an IQ transplant as well as a kick up the backside! He must be several sandwiches short of a picnic to think that he wouldn't get found out!

What I don't get is why he didn't approach the site as himself with his sports group and ask if he could use the site? On some sites round here anyway, that would be okayed, provided he made sure that his group was insured, that they were YP and that there was space that week. (It would cost them a quid or two more than Scouts but they could use it). So why did he go to all the trouble of such subtefuge?

Beats me!

**Chris Lambert** · 19-09-2010, 04:22 PM

Isn't there a number for things like this? 0845 300 1818 or e-mail info.centre@scout.org.uk...

**dmoorcroft** · 19-09-2010, 04:26 PM

I would go absolutely to town at embarressing him.

Not only would he receive a knock on the door from a very irate me, i'd get a story in the local paper about his deceptions as well as telling the police etc

**Mark W** · 19-09-2010, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Chris Lambert

Isn't there a number for things like this? 0845 300 1818 or e-mail info.centre@scout.org.uk...

...beat me to it Chris. This is an obvious "leave it to the professionals" problem because HQ will have seen it before, plenty of times.
I wouldn't try papers or embarrassment because a) that's not nice (& therefore not scouting) and b) these things have a habit of getting out of hand and life's too short to spend on revenge or back covering.

**DKRSL** · 19-09-2010, 05:00 PM

Every time I turn up on a site I'm half expecting to get asked for my Nights Away permit. Never happens. Would put a stop to this kind of thing though, surely?

**johnmcmahon** · 19-09-2010, 05:07 PM

You / your Group are too close to the issue to deal with it yourself.

Report it your DC and the Info Centre. I would do this by email.

The DC then has a well laid out procedure to follow.

The greatest concern to me would be inapproprite use of the Group contacts. I guess that someone in the other organisation is / has been affiliated with you at some point.

If not, you need to start Googling and removing personal details from web sites.

**ianjames** · 19-09-2010, 05:21 PM

I don't think its a simple as just someone using a group name to access a scout camp site, many camp sites opperate different charges for non-scouts and non local districts so there could well have been a monetary advantage to being on site as scouts.

At this time of year we don't pay a deposit on our local site but then we do use it regulary. I do find it slightly strange that they thought they could get away with it though. Had they done things properly and paid then the worrying thing is you would have never known about it.

Most places would ask for confirmation on headed paper etc for bookings so its unlikely they would get away with using your name but you never know. As other have said, let HQ deal with it, they have the experience and also any come back should be directed at them and not members of your group.