District Teams

[Bushfella]

Key thing is a desire to properly reflect the importance of the role of the GSL within the district team as being the front line support to section leaders and in managing their Group etc. and able to draw on support from other members of the district team.

Can anyone see a flaw in that line of thinking...

Any form of "management" depends upon there being competent managers in place in the first place, or even just managers!

I somehow can't see anyone changing the local practice of a lifetime and lifting a finger to help at another Group, never mind District.

The few GSLs we have in these parts are largely struggling to keep their own Groups afloat never mind manage a District.

I know one GSL who has his fingers badly burned by supporting District, he won't be doing that again any time soon. In fact, he is following Wayne's guidance on the subject.

[PaulArthurs]

I think the plan is to clarify the respective roles.

The sectional ADCs are there to support/assist the DC, and not to try to manage the sections operating within the Groups. As I understand the changes, the purpose is to clarify that section leaders (in fact all adults in the Group) are 'managed' by the GSL. It is the GSL, therefore, that needs to know what the sections are doing, and provide support as required, not the sectional ADCs.

I suspect some of the current sectional ADCs will take on GSL roles where the DC is (by default) the defacto GSL.

[daveb123]

I think the plan is to clarify the respective roles.

The sectional ADCs are there to support/assist the DC, and not to try to manage the sections operating within the Groups. As I understand the changes, the purpose is to clarify that section leaders (in fact all adults in the Group) are 'managed' by the GSL. It is the GSL, therefore, that needs to know what the sections are doing, and provide support as required, not the sectional ADCs.

I suspect some of the current sectional ADCs will take on GSL roles where the DC is (by default) the defacto GSL.

That is why the DC and GSLs are considered to be managers and ADCs are considered supporters and why the DESC is not an ADC - the DESC is a manager in the same way as a GSL.

An ADCs job is to support Leaders in the given role (Beavers, Cubs etc) they are not there to manage adults or manage the programme.

[Rover]

I only partly agree with you bushfella.

I have some fantastic people who move between groups for me and some GSl's who fully support the district as well as groups. We have even managed to get one who is a beaver leader at one group and a ASL at another. she is loving it as she is learning so many new things.

The ones that move between groups "tend" to be faily new people who havn't had years of "this is the way we do it" drummed into them.

At the moment I am trying to get an expericed CSL to go and work and mentor a new CSL at a group where there is little expernce. of course the mentor needs to have considerable experaince, but no one will go.

at work with paid empolyees you would tell them, but we are not at work and we are dealing with volenteers. but I belive it would help if the association could start to try and engenda a change of culture.

[ianw]

I hate to ask where this leaves the humble DESC

Ian

[PaulArthurs]

I hate to ask where this leaves the humble DESC

I suspect the DESC will continue to operate as they should now. The DESC should support/manager the Units in the same way that the GSL should support/manage the Colony, Pack and Troop.

The changes may clarify to ESLs the role of the DESC (or DC where there is no DESC).

[fmountford]

Im a little confused with this, we are told that rule changes wont change people mentalities or improve a situation, or we are told that there is noting stopping us from doing that already and its down to the right people in the right roled, all i agree with but this seems to be contradicting this message.

That said I have noted that Team working in districts can be poor, will this rule change help.

[Bushfella]

That said I have noted that Team working in districts can be poor, will this rule change help.

Rules won't change attitudes.

[daveb123]

but I belive it would help if the association could start to try and engenda a change of culture.

What do you think HQ may do to help with that?

In the past when HQ issued Warrants they were clearly marked that the adult is question was appointed to a role in a District.

The Group details were added by the District as an adult was appointed to a Group. If that really worked then fine.

BUT if a Group goes out and spends time recruiting adults to run sections and open new ones - the last thing they want is someone asking them to go elsewhere.

It is like when a DC sees an excellent Group and thinks that if they are successful it can only be good for the District - so start approaching Leaders to take Commissioner roles or move to other Groups who are weak - the successful Group then becomes weak.

There has to be a happy medium.

[fmountford]

Rules won't change attitudes.

My Point entirely

Is this rule change going to be accompainied with appropriate training and guidance, literature with examples, dos and donts or are we going to get local areas inventing their own schemes to suit them and not those around them without discussion?

[Bushfella]

It is like when a DC sees an excellent Group and thinks that if they are successful it can only be good for the District - so start approaching Leaders to take Commissioner roles or move to other Groups who are weak - the successful Group then becomes weak.

And the groups the help is intended for don't want it, so you have a lose-lose situation.

[marcush]

My district changed it's structure so that there is:
Youth Programme - with sectional ADCs, DESC and DSNL
Adult Support
Group Support - GSLs/AGSLs, DESC and DSNL
Training
District Scouters

Which from what has been said seems to make GSLs a core part of the district team.

[shiftypete]

Our District has combined the District Team and GSLs meetings which i do think works well in involving Groups in District wide decisions more. However I do think that there does need to be some District Team meetings just with the DC, ADCs and District Leaders to give them the opportunity to discuss issues with Groups in private (e.g. reporting back on recent visits and any issues from those).

[richardnhunt]

Whatever structure you have, you are dependant on the team in place, their willingness; their baggage and their time available. i am, at times, critical of some of my Districts choices. However I do acknowledge and respect their effort and commitment and am saddened when I feel I need to disagree with them. Changing the titles or the paper structure wont help them support us more.

I personally feel that Groups are the heart of scouting and a District should be a collaboration of groups for mutual advantage. Where it does get tricky is where some of our closest relationships are with groups in different districts!

Rich

[daveb123]

Our District has combined the District Team and GSLs meetings which i do think works well in involving Groups in District wide decisions more. However I do think that there does need to be some District Team meetings just with the DC, ADCs and District Leaders to give them the opportunity to discuss issues with Groups in private (e.g. reporting back on recent visits and any issues from those).

But if you have a good District Team (with the GSLs) you don't need the secret meetings. After all the ADCs and District leaders have no role in the management of the DSistrict or Groups - so if an ADC sees a problem they should be able to approach firstly the Leader in the section and if that fails the GSL who is the Group's Manager.

If you have a secret meeting you are bypassing the one person who needs to be aware of the problem and who will be expected to sort it.

If the problem is the GSL the ADC or Scouter should be dicusiing it with the DC and not waiting for a meeting.