One for all you clever people out there!

**Tazmania** · 19-02-2012, 02:34 PM

We currently have young lad with complex needs who joined Beavers in Sept last year and is only really now starting to settle into a good routine and engage in everything (developmental delay, which has caused behaviour issues at school but, so far, we have yet to see any real evidence at Beavers)

He does not have any specific diagnosis but (with my professional hat on), he does have some movement coordination problems, language/communication difficulties and is very delayed with reading and writing so needs extra help with any paper based tasks.

He is really starting to thrive with us and his stepdad is having to stay to help him less and less, but he will be 8 in May and I am worried he will get lost at cubs as it is a very physical, rough and tumble group.

Can we hang on to him until after the holidays, so he can at least go on a sleepover with us, and go up with another child, or does he HAVE to go up at 8?

**marcush** · 19-02-2012, 02:41 PM

I'm sure it says in POR, someone who knows POR better than me will most probably quote it, but I think if you have approval of DC or GSL (it's one of them, think it's DC) then he can stay on for up to a year.

------ Update --- The Following was Added within 30 Minutes of the above ---

3.11 (b)
Flexibility for Individual Members
When necessary, due to a young person’s special needs, the District Commissioner may, on the recommendation of the Assistant County Commissioner (Special Needs) or County Adviser, permit a young person to be in a Section outside of the normal age range. This permission should be logged on a simple form and be subject to annual review.
A factsheet and supporting forms are available from the Scout Information Centre.

**Keith** · 19-02-2012, 02:42 PM

You can keep him longer with approval from the DC

A few years ago we asked our DC to allow a YP with CP to do so, but our DC said no.

**GSLColchester** · 19-02-2012, 02:43 PM

You can hold on to him, I am sure someone will come and quote POR but I have held a few back after 8th Birthday for different reasons.
Just keep the Cub Leader & GSL in the picture.

Well done on bringing this young person on and helping him develop in Beavers, hope sleepover goes well.

Nicole

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**shiftypete** · 19-02-2012, 03:38 PM

You can keep him until he is 8 and a half without anyone's permission, beyond that you need to seek the DCs permission as others have said.

**Lilac_Beaver** · 19-02-2012, 04:04 PM

I had a similar Beaver and it was lovely to see him thrive

We kept him until he was 8 and half as per POR and the only reason I didn't keep him after that was he was so much bigger than the rest. We've had similar situations in all three sections, and I find after that extra half a year, you can sometimes have a child you are afraid will genuinly hurt some of the smaller ones in any games that are a bit rough and tumble, our one Cub we had for instance was a good head taller than the rest of the cubs by the time he was 11 and we had quite a young pack.

**JohnR** · 19-02-2012, 04:16 PM

Between you, the CSL and his parents you can choose his moving up date anytime up to 8 1/2 years without involving anybody else. Delayed development, a sleepover, and moving on with another kid all sound like excellent reasons for using that 6 month flexibility.

**Scary Monster** · 19-02-2012, 07:04 PM

It's pretty common for kids to only move section at the end of term, which is why the standard age ranges have flexibility on them. If he's 8 in May then you can easily keep him (as others have said) until the end of term and you wouldn't be doing anything unusual in the slightest.

**Walsallwizard** · 19-02-2012, 07:11 PM

I have had a similar position myself, the core age for Cubs is 8½ years so you have some lee way yet. The people you need to be talking to thought is your GSL, CSL and the Parents, the need to involve the DC is when you have a plan in place .

**dasy2k1** · 19-02-2012, 09:38 PM

We have a beaver that is 9 at the moment.
With the permission of the dc as they have learning difficulties, this gets reviewed fairly regularly
when they are ready to move up they will

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**Firefly** · 19-02-2012, 10:10 PM

We had a beaver who stayed until he was nearly nine, at which point he decided he didn't want to be a beaver anymore. None of the other beavers made any comment about it, they just accepted that he was one of them. It suited everyone concerned and nobody had a problem with it. We are here, after all, to help all children have fun & reach their full potential.

**Tazmania** · 20-02-2012, 05:00 PM

See, you are all brilliant at wording sensible answers!! Parents haven't said anything yet, just forward planning...

**marcush** · 20-02-2012, 05:31 PM

it is good that you are forward planning, so if parents ask, you then have the stuff and can hopefully start the ball rolling sooner rather than later if you need to.

**giggles** · 21-02-2012, 06:47 PM

Having had a child that has held back due to their development delays, I would say speak to the parents before you do anything else. My son was held back for nearly months in Cubs and as his 11th Birthday approached he asked why was he the only cub in year 6? All of the others in the pack were in years 3-4. As a result he left Cubs not wanting to join Scouts. At no stage were we consulted over the situation and at the time I was a BSL and my husband a senior committee member, every time either of us mentioned it the subject was changed.

6 months later, after his sister joined another Group, he decided he wanted to join that Group where he is doing really well. So a happy ending. But if only someone had have spoken to us in the old Group.

**JohnR** · 22-02-2012, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by giggles

Having had a child that has held back due to their development delays, I would say speak to the parents before you do anything else. My son was held back for nearly months in Cubs and as his 11th Birthday approached he asked why was he the only cub in year 6? All of the others in the pack were in years 3-4.

Completely right that parents (and at Cub age the Cub) must be part of that discussion - in my reply to the OP I said "Between you, the CSL and his parents you can choose his moving up date anytime up to 8 1/2 years without involving anybody else." I'd suggest though that in your son's case it's not the 'holding back until his 11th birthday approached' which is questionable, it's the lack of involvement of him or his parents in the discussion, and the fact that he was left isolated from his mates. It's not uncommon that we have Cubs not going up until their 11th birthday approaches, and at the other end we have Cubs going up a few months after their 10th birthday - the key driver in that is that retention through the transition to Scouts is much better if Cubs go up in gangs. In a few weeks time we'll have 5 Cubs, with nearly six months between their ages, go up together - the odd timing is all down to discussions with the SL and the kids about what's going to work best to get all 5 of them moved on.