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66FRAN
01-02-2011, 10:50 PM
My Group's Executive Committee is reviewing our Membership Subscription.
We currently charge £2 per meeting week, due at the start of each half term. This equates to £78 per year.
We aim to introduce Standing Orders, and due to increasing costs need to reconsider how much we need to charge. Not wishing to overcharge, I was wondering what other Group's charge.
So across a year what is your Group Membership Subscription (including payment of Annual Membership Subscription)?

big chris
01-02-2011, 10:52 PM
So across a year what is your Group Membership Subscription (including payment of AMS)?

we charge what we need to run... you must do the same

our costs are different - as will our membership numbers be... our subs will differ

DonTregartha
01-02-2011, 10:54 PM
£90 a year

daveb123
01-02-2011, 10:57 PM
My Group's Executive Committee is reviewing our Membership Subscription.
We currently charge £2 per meeting week, due at the start of each half term. This equates to £78 per year.
We aim to introduce Standing Orders, and due to increasing costs need to reconsider how much we need to charge. Not wishing to overcharge, I was wondering what other Group's charge.
So across a year what is your Group Membership Subscription (including payment of AMS)?

We charge £100 per year. We're not bothered how it is paid - we generally ask for it monthly at £10 with August and December 'free', but if someone struggles that way they can pay weekly - but they pay whether they come or not.

We are open most weeks - but the programme if often adapted during the holidays - for instance the Beaver leader is a teacher so often meets during the day during the holidays and makes a day of it.

If meeting night falls on Christmas Eve, Day, Boxing Day, New Years Eve or Day then we are closed.

shiftypete
01-02-2011, 11:01 PM
We charge £25 per term so £75 per year including AMS. We are lucky that we don't have to cover the full costs of our meeting place if we owned our own hut we would charge significantly more I expect.

dmoorcroft
02-02-2011, 01:59 AM
We charge £25 per term so £75 per year and we own our own hut. We're fortunate to help out at the village fayre and raise over £2000 per year as well as other fundraisers

marcush
02-02-2011, 07:17 AM
£32 a term £96 a year
£27 a term £81 a year for leaders children.

Mallah
02-02-2011, 07:51 AM
We charge £25 per term so £75 per year including AMS. We are lucky that we don't have to cover the full costs of our meeting place if we owned our own hut we would charge significantly more I expect.Our subs is £25 per term and we do own our meeting place, which we can use to raise money so don't have to charge any more on subs.

JPA
02-02-2011, 09:13 AM
Scouts charge £72 a year, Cubs charge £25 a term (£75 a year), one beaver Colony charge's 50p a night and the other charges £2 a night

andypagett
02-02-2011, 10:22 AM
£120 per year, payable monthly or quarterly. Includes AMS and most activities (expensive things we will ask for a contribution towards). Does not include camps.

If you're intested that roughly breaks down as follows:

£10 / mo =
AMS contribution - £2.50
Building rent - £0.50
Equipment kitty - £1
Activities - £6

Ian Mallett
02-02-2011, 11:05 AM
£99 per year currently collected at £16.50 per half term.

We are considering making payment by standing order available, at £8.25 per month. This would make things a lot easier, but you need a group treasurer who is prepared to do the bank statement checking and subs recording that section leaders/helpers have traditionally done. Fortunately we have such a treasurer.

Ayers ESU
02-02-2011, 11:40 AM
We have Standing Orders at £4/month, 50% of which is to cover AMS, with a new District Levy we will have to review this but appear to be very cheap compared to everyone else!

Tibsie
02-02-2011, 12:04 PM
£60 a year, payable either as a lump sum of £60 or £20 a term.

We don't do monthly or weekly collections, £20 is cheap enough to find once a term and it takes a term to chase the latepayers anyway!!

Incidentally we have two scouts who haven't paid for last term yet. The SL said he'll have a word before we start thinking of sanctions.

ASLChris
02-02-2011, 12:27 PM
We currently charge £3 per week, but after Easter will probably have to raise it to £4 in order to cover extortionate rent increase by the Housing Trust.

johnsk7576
02-02-2011, 01:22 PM
£ 10 per term
£1.50 per night attended we dont meet on holidays so that works out at about £85per year if they turn up every week.

Camps and outdoor activities are charges as they happen.

J

Kiff76
02-02-2011, 02:18 PM
No clue - County pay mine

AkelaNeil
02-02-2011, 05:01 PM
£5 per month by standing order, so £60 per year on which we claim gift aid. It's been at that rate now for about 8 years and we're only just getting to the stage where we need to consider an increase.

wolfie
02-02-2011, 05:35 PM
we charge what we need to run... you must do the same

our costs are different - as will our membership numbers be... our subs will differ

what he said:)

we do operate monthly standing orders which makes life much easier on the subs collection front

Testarossa
02-02-2011, 10:18 PM
I'd love to know how groups manage to charge less than £60.

We charge £35 per term. £30 per year of that is paid to District for capitation.

Waverley GDB
02-02-2011, 10:20 PM
I'd love to know how groups manage to charge less than £60.

We charge £35 per term. £30 per year of that is paid to District for capitation.

Fund Raising. We raise 50% of our funds by Jumble Sales so can keep our subs to £55 per year, or £20 per term.

Akela Paul
02-02-2011, 10:36 PM
£3 pw subs over a 40 week year.

Of this, £2 is paid to group for hall and grounds upkeep. Capitation is also paid out of this.

The remaining £1 is retained by the pack for runnjng the meetings/buying pack essentials etc.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Tibsie
03-02-2011, 12:41 AM
I'd love to know how groups manage to charge less than £60.

We charge £35 per term. £30 per year of that is paid to District for capitation.

£60 a year subs - £28 capitation = £32

Minibus paid for by Scout Post
Hall owned by group, bills paid for by non-group users.

So our only real overheads are badges, stationery, food for cooking evenings and swimming pool hire (£50-60) once a year when we do the swimmers badge.

Camps and other activities are self funding and run to make a small "profit".

Incidentally I just banked over £200 in cheques and our Troop account has just over £2k in it, most of that is due to be transferred to group saving.

We don't tend to fundraise, only the Scout Post (for minibus) and Dickensian Evening (which pays for the christmas party).

big chris
03-02-2011, 12:49 AM
£60 a year subs - £28 capitation = £32

Minibus paid for by Scout Post

excellent...

Hall owned by group, bills paid for by non-group users.

wow! that's awesome... i do like having our hall to ourselves though... swings and roundabouts, i guess...

So our only real overheads are badges,

i just spent £250 on badges... those prices stack up v quickly... 20 kids getting the creative challenge = £10

stationery,

you do well to keep these costs low,

food for cooking evenings

ok... i expect to do 4 or 5 cooking evenings per year... i would never pay less than a quid per head and sometimes 2 or 3 quid... again... costs stack up soooo quickly.

and swimming pool hire (£50-60) once a year when we do the swimmers badge.

bargain!


Camps and other activities are self funding and run to make a small "profit".

cool...

Incidentally I just banked over £200 in cheques and our Troop account has just over £2k in it, most of that is due to be transferred to group saving.

We don't tend to fundraise, only the Scout Post (for minibus) and Dickensian Evening (which pays for the christmas party).

you must run a v tight budget... congrats... ours is rather more ummm... unwieldy...



oh.... and we just paid out £500 on new brakes for a 1 year old minibus... the old ones had been chewed through by foxes... people wonder why we sit on a surplus... it;s because things like that happen...

insurers wanted a fair old excess plus they said there's be an increase in insurance based on the claim of 20-30% - insurance is £1,200/year!

dj_mikey_k
03-02-2011, 08:23 AM
subs are £3 per week with the break down of £1 each week goes to the hut

So for example some weeks 20 turn up to scouts the hut gets £20 and the troop take £40. The next week 12 turn up so hut gets £12 and the troop take £24

Testarossa
03-02-2011, 09:10 AM
£60 a year subs - £28 capitation = £32

Minibus paid for by Scout Post
Hall owned by group, bills paid for by non-group users.

So our only real overheads are badges, stationery, food for cooking evenings and swimming pool hire (£50-60) once a year when we do the swimmers badge.

Camps and other activities are self funding and run to make a small "profit".

Incidentally I just banked over £200 in cheques and our Troop account has just over £2k in it, most of that is due to be transferred to group saving.

We don't tend to fundraise, only the Scout Post (for minibus) and Dickensian Evening (which pays for the christmas party).

That is still pretty amazing. Our hut is ours to maintain, but even so, I still can't see how we would manage on that amount. We tend to do 2 bag packing weekends a year which bring in about £4000, but this is used to subsidise camps, such as Summer camp (£1500 for Kandersteg 2009 per head, £300 for Norfolk watersports camp 2010, almost £300 per head for our international camp 2011 plus about 9 or 10 other camps a year and trips such as parascending, gliding, kayaking etc).

Maybe we organise too much?:o

Ian Mallett
03-02-2011, 09:33 AM
Fund Raising. We raise 50% of our funds by Jumble Sales so can keep our subs to £55 per year, or £20 per term.

I haven't seen a jumble sale organised or advertised in my locality since I moved here in 1993. In my view this sort of fundraising activity has disappeared not just from scouting, but also from other youth groups and even churches/chapels etc, around where I live.

Most of the key parents in my group are also involved in the PFA/PTA of their children's schools, and they prioritise that fundraising, over scout group fundraising, every time. This includes many of our leaders, who are leaders because they have kids in the group.

I also think that a lot of traditional fundraising skills, that might have been picked up if you grew up as part of a church community that ran fairs/fetes/galas etc, have been lost as fewer people grow up in that envirionment. It's where mine came from. My scout group has had no tradition of organising fundraising events that I can establish, and that doesn't seem unusual in my patch.

dj_mikey_k
03-02-2011, 11:55 AM
I haven't seen a jumble sale organised or advertised in my locality since I moved here in 1993. In my view this sort of fundraising activity has disappeared not just from scouting, but also from other youth groups and even churches/chapels etc, around where I live.

Most of the key parents in my group are also involved in the PFA/PTA of their children's schools, and they prioritise that fundraising, over scout group fundraising, every time. This includes many of our leaders, who are leaders because they have kids in the group.

I also think that a lot of traditional fundraising skills, that might have been picked up if you grew up as part of a church community that ran fairs/fetes/galas etc, have been lost as fewer people grow up in that envirionment. It's where mine came from. My scout group has had no tradition of organising fundraising events that I can establish, and that doesn't seem unusual in my patch.

I think that is the same in most parts of the UK excpet for maybe some Rural & Closenit Church communities

When i went to Chile in 1999 our fundraising team funded just over 12k in 6 months (that was before our local supermarket allowed bag packers in). We held jumbles, beetle drives, dances, race nights, Auctions at the dances and race nights.

The 5 scouts who are going from the district who are going to jamboree this year are finding it difficult to get the required funds, I know one has already dropped out (Funding is not the only reason he dropped out but it is one of them)

on a group level, when I have asked parents why they hav'nt supported an event answers range from, No time to attend, don't belive in bag packing as it is like begging! :rolleyes: (kids also claim that they would get mercilessly teased if they are seen bag packing in uniform at our local supermarket) don't support gambling (Race Night's/Bingos) Lack of money to attend the event.

big chris
03-02-2011, 12:12 PM
on a group level, when I have asked parents why they hav'nt supported an event answers range from, No time to attend, don't belive in bag packing as it is like begging! :rolleyes: (kids also claim that they would get mercilessly teased if they are seen bag packing in uniform at our local supermarket)

a very valid point... you must get the cool kids onside... if the confident ones are going... they'll all go...


don't support gambling (Race Night's/Bingos)

that's only a handful, it's an excuse

Lack of money to attend the event.

fair point... ish...

we don't run the fundraisers.. i've been LiC for 6 or 7 years and i have roped in parents... ones with a track record of PTA parties... the other parents trust them to run a great party... If you are buying a £15 ticket each, spending a tenner each on wine, and getting a cab home... where you have to pay the babysitter... it MUST be a quality event. You're looking at a couple paying £100 for the night potentially.







Leaders are good at some things... we should be leading... chat to parents and find what they can do... "oh... i used to run race nights"... that sort of thing gets dropped into conversation by the unwitting potential volunteer

Matt Donnelly
03-02-2011, 12:53 PM
We charge £2.50 a week across all sections. £1 goes into an AMS fund, £1 to cover building costs, the remaining 50p to sections.

We are looking at a range of options however. Currently we don't charge for absent weeks (which severely dents our income) so we're looking at things such as:

- Charging £1 for missed weeks to cover the AMS contirbution
- Charging the full £2.50 for missed weeks (perhaps up to a maximum of £10)
- Switching to paying ~£10 per month which could be paid through weekly contributions or one off payments
- Switching to paying ~£30 per term which could be paid through weekly contributions or one off payments

And a couple of other possibilities (which I can;t actually recall!).

We're slowly building up our fundraising capacity, although what we have run so far hasn't pulled in much money due to initial outlay costs.

I personally hate bagpacking, with avengence - I hate running it, the young people hate being there, and the staff on the tills can find it annoying if the people doing the bagpacking are inefficient. My AGSL said he'll look into instead!

Mark Smith
03-02-2011, 01:05 PM
£10 per month, £8 for any other sibling.

marcush
03-02-2011, 03:57 PM
We charge £2.50 a week across all sections. £1 goes into an AMS fund, £1 to cover building costs, the remaining 50p to sections.

We are looking at a range of options however. Currently we don't charge for absent weeks (which severely dents our income) so we're looking at things such as:

- Charging £1 for missed weeks to cover the AMS contirbution
- Charging the full £2.50 for missed weeks (perhaps up to a maximum of £10)
- Switching to paying ~£10 per month which could be paid through weekly contributions or one off payments
- Switching to paying ~£30 per term which could be paid through weekly contributions or one off payments

And a couple of other possibilities (which I can;t actually recall!).

We're slowly building up our fundraising capacity, although what we have run so far hasn't pulled in much money due to initial outlay costs.

I personally hate bagpacking, with avengence - I hate running it, the young people hate being there, and the staff on the tills can find it annoying if the people doing the bagpacking are inefficient. My AGSL said he'll look into instead!

Some of those sound pretty confusing to me. Surely you could take 39/42 weeks multiplied by £2.50 and then divide that by 3. Then get that at the beginning of each term.

Dave6
03-02-2011, 10:54 PM
advice wanted, we are going through some big changes in the group at the moment, with how the section finances are run. With the group holding all of the sections money, on what basis do you get your allocation back? is it on your census figures, or as and when you require money, or what is the norm?

ASLChris
03-02-2011, 11:05 PM
advice wanted, we are going through some big changes in the group at the moment, with how the section finances are run. With the group holding all of the sections money, on what basis do you get your allocation back? is it on your census figures, or as and when you require money, or what is the norm?

We currently charge £3 per YP per week (whether or not the YP attends), of which £2 goes to the Group and £1 to the section. We have a set amount to pay to the Group based on census figures to pay for AMS fees already paid.

It's quite easy to manage a spreadsheet on it, or even a piece of paper, if you have a Treasurer that is even half competent.

marcush
03-02-2011, 11:06 PM
advice wanted, we are going through some big changes in the group at the moment, with how the section finances are run. With the group holding all of the sections money, on what basis do you get your allocation back? is it on your census figures, or as and when you require money, or what is the norm?

1/3 of subs each term as a max can go back to each section on the number of YP we have in that section at that time. Usually get about £150-£200 and the beginning and then anymore is given upto 33.3% of subs.

shiftypete
03-02-2011, 11:22 PM
advice wanted, we are going through some big changes in the group at the moment, with how the section finances are run. With the group holding all of the sections money, on what basis do you get your allocation back? is it on your census figures, or as and when you require money, or what is the norm?
We have bank accounts for each Section, sections pay over to the main Group account 40/75ths of each subs payment (it was increased slightly from 1/3rd last year) to cover the Group's running costs (AMS, equipment insurance, payment for use of the halls etc). Each section keeps the remaining 35/75ths of each subs payment to pay for running section activities (equipment, badges, activties costs etc).

All fund-raising goes into the main Group account as does all gift aid and any equipment requests authorised by Group Exec are paid for from this main Group account.

Dave6
04-02-2011, 12:29 PM
Many thanks for your replies, there seems to be many different ways, I think there is going to be a lot of debate coming up! At the moment all money is allocated using census numbers, however this doesn't necessarily tie up when your numbers change throughout the year, can leave you very short if you get several leave.

Matt Donnelly
04-02-2011, 02:39 PM
Some of those sound pretty confusing to me. Surely you could take 39/42 weeks multiplied by £2.50 and then divide that by 3. Then get that at the beginning of each term.

Where my group is, a fair number of people would struggle to pay a whole term in one go. So we're taking the matter to a Group Council meeting to give parents the chance to have a say and then a vote on what system to go with.

They are all fairly straight forward TBH - and the end result will be a clear an unambiguous system which is easy to operate.

Baloo Doug
06-02-2011, 10:17 PM
We charge £2.00 per night and it can be paid weekly, monthly or termly. It is the same accross all sections.

We also own our own hall but the running costs are covered by other users who hire the hall either on a regular bases or ad hoc bases.

Richard
12-03-2011, 11:46 PM
All I can say, is I searched, thats my defence.

Here is a poll from last month, if you havent voted in this one

Cheers

Moz
12-03-2011, 11:59 PM
Am I being really stupid? What's AMS?

MikeJ
13-03-2011, 12:01 AM
Am I being really stupid? What's AMS?

Annual Membership Subscription or capitation

stevelinton
13-03-2011, 12:13 AM
£1 per meetiung plus £35 per year.

gslsaltney
13-03-2011, 12:39 PM
We have relunctantly increased to £40 per term this year £10 of this is to cover the £30 AMS. The rest covers HQ running costs (Utilities, Ground Rent, Insurance and possibly rates from next year) and weekly activities. Other activities camps day trips etc. are charged extra

CanterburyFox
13-03-2011, 06:33 PM
What we charge differs by section, Beavers are £26, Cubs are £28 and £30 for scouts. The difference just gives the sections a bigger cut as the scouts use the mini bus on a regular basis. We then charge an extra fee on the occasional night if we have a special activity planned. like a visiter coming to see us.

tice18
13-03-2011, 06:57 PM
We charge £28 per term. Of which we get £7.

Chopwell's yeti
13-03-2011, 07:53 PM
At my group we charge £1 per meeting per member across all the sections.

roger-uk
13-03-2011, 08:31 PM
At my group we charge £1 per meeting per member across all the sections.

I take it that excluds AMS?

Chopwell's yeti
13-03-2011, 08:35 PM
I take it that excluds AMS?

Yeah that does exclude AMS as we don't charge members for AMS at all.

marcush
13-03-2011, 08:41 PM
how do you cover AMS? be interesting to know.

Fiyero
13-03-2011, 10:02 PM
We have recently put ours up from £8 to £9.50 per term by Standing Order. It is the same for all sections.

Margaret Oliver
13-03-2011, 11:18 PM
We charge £10 a month except for August - so £110 a year. Its payable regardless of whether the child is there for all the weeks. This covers capitation, badges, equipment, insurance and church donation.

We also manage to subsidise camps mostly due to the gift aid money though.

We have had subs at this level for at least five years and don't have a need to increase at the moment. We would if we were having to pay hourly rent though.

merryweather
13-03-2011, 11:32 PM
We charge £10 a month except for August - so £110 a year. Its payable regardless of whether the child is there for all the weeks. This covers capitation, badges, equipment, insurance and church donation.

church donation? what's one of them?


We also manage to subsidise camps mostly due to the gift aid money though.

We have had subs at this level for at least five years and don't have a need to increase at the moment. We would if we were having to pay hourly rent though.

five years? so if there's no need to increase now, does that mean that there was 5 years ago? or have costs/charges reduced in that time?

in the group i'm in the kids pay £15 per school term. period.

cordially yours, TM

Chopwell's yeti
14-03-2011, 07:00 AM
how do you cover AMS? be interesting to know.

Every month the parents committee hold a coffee morning which does wonders for our group. This money is then used to pay for things like AMS, water, gas etc... Were the only group in our district who does this but its something which works for us and has done for the past 10+ years.

marcush
14-03-2011, 07:58 AM
church donation? what's one of them?



five years? so if there's no need to increase now, does that mean that there was 5 years ago? or have costs/charges reduced in that time?

in the group i'm in the kids pay £15 per school term. period.

cordially yours, TM

TM, We also do church donations, we are split between 2 churches, but we also support the churches in other things.

Bushfella
14-03-2011, 07:59 AM
This subject seems to crop up from time to time and whilst I answered the poll. I think that in fact this is probably quite a pointless exercise.

What a Group charges depends upon what its costs are. It can depend upon its Leader policy. It can depend upon its level of activity. It can depend upon how it deals with AMS. It can depend upon how it complies, or not, with insurance requirements.

Our £135 per year includes capitation and a £30 building Surcharge. So in fact, we charge £1.87-ish per week, but by the time we have dialled in AMS and the Building surcharge that is actually £3.37 per week.

The Buildings surcharge was introduced at a time when there was virtually zero parental support for the Group in terms of fundraising, so we notified, then introduced the surcharge. Every parent gets a clear notification of what it is for and it has been uninanimously accepted - even though parental support for fundraising has largely recovered.

rickuk99
14-03-2011, 01:38 PM
I agree with Bushfella,

Every troop is different, we charge £25 per term so £75 per annan, however we have no building costs etc and therefore after capitation of which we have just paid £28 per scout we have nearly £50 to work with. We are a new group so most of it goes on equipment which we has also been boosted by grants and fund raising.

I know of other groups who charge a similar amount however after building costs and capitaion only have around £10 per scout.

etheltheaard
14-03-2011, 09:27 PM
£75 plus gift aid

joannacparker
15-03-2011, 07:53 PM
£7 a month per 12 months = £84
we really need to raise it

big chris
15-03-2011, 08:01 PM
£7 a month per 12 months = £84
we really need to raise it

are you losing money?

if not, why do you need to raise it?

GSL Raksha
17-03-2011, 01:27 PM
I look after 2 groups, first group members pay £12 per month (all year) by standing order. This pays for capitation, peppercorn rent for the building, building maintenance and insurance, leaders training and uniforms. The sections receive a decent termly allowance per head but only if they hand in their termly accounts to the treasurer. 98% of our parents pay gift aid. Sections pay for badges, swimming pool hire, subsidise outings and craft materials. We do fundraising for major projects, currently woodworm treatment, heating and new windows in the past, coaches for trips further afield and to subsidise our three yearly trip to Malta. The bag packing etc is part of the Promise challenge, helping others and I promote it to the parents as the old 'bob a job' which many of them wish it still happens. We also advertise scouting and now and then encourage adults to join or return. My second group (which has been without a GSL & Chairman for a couple of years) pays £6 a month (all year) by standing order, which pays for capitation, building maintenance, insurance and some leader training. Numbers are low, leaders don't stay long, section expenses are requested through the treasurer as and when and sometimes not at all and no fundraising takes place. With the help of a new committee this is changing, I've proposed an increase to £8.00 a month with a 3 yearly review and sections to be provided with a termly allowance with an aim to come in line with the first group.
At £6 a month throughout the year, parents are paying £2 per school week meeting which is less than a comic or magazine and I bet a lot less than their weekly sweets bill. Yet we are offering so much more so don't be frightened to ask for a bit more!

jelly
18-03-2011, 01:51 PM
Just found out that Subs for my eldest in Beavers are only £40 pa!!!

That is less than half what my group charges

big chris
18-03-2011, 02:57 PM
Just found out that Subs for my eldest in Beavers are only £40 pa!!!

That is less than half what my group charges

i guess you'll be stung for lots of extra costs during the year...

Gareth Thomas
18-03-2011, 10:27 PM
Axe Explorer Units generally charge between 45 and 50 quid per term (3 x terms a year), that includes AMS

Klaynos
20-03-2011, 02:55 PM
Ours have recently gone up due to escalating overheads...

£15/term and £2/night for scouts, £1.50 cubs, £1 for beavers.

Works out at around £100/year. We've tried to limit the increase as much as we can by doing more fund raising.

All camps and other expensive activities are charged as they happen.

To give a quick run down of how we work it out.

£15/term + £1.25/night covers AMS and 50% of our rent, we then fundraise the other 50%. The rest goes on night activities, equipment and subsidising other activities.

Foxcoverts
29-03-2011, 12:20 PM
Beavers currently pay £2.50 per week whilst Cubs and Scouts pay £3.00 per week. If for any reason any Young Member does not attend on any week they will pay £1.50 this is to cover AMS.
The Treasurer will take £1.50 per person per week from each sections Subs and place in to a bank account to pay for AMS.
We do not charge for section activities but will charge for outings and camps.

ASLChris
29-03-2011, 12:38 PM
We're raising our subs to £3.50 pw now, due to our rent increase.

wilfy
29-03-2011, 09:56 PM
Starting to feel guilty now.

Group charge is £70 a year

We as a Scout section charge around £30 a term for subs + camps and other activities.

So total around £160

We have never really had a fundraising committee until now so have had to buy all our own stuff but we do subsidise camps when we can.

We are flexible with weekly subs with families on lower incomes but our way of looking at it is if footy clubs, karate, swimming etc can charge £5+ a week then we shouldn't feel so guilty. ALL of our money goes back to the Scouts in some way or another.

big chris
29-03-2011, 10:00 PM
ALL of our money goes back to the Scouts in some way or another.

so there ya go...

maybe you need a long term plan to do some fundraising... make it sociable and a way to have fun with the parents or do it with a specific aim ( a trip or new kit) but don't feel guilty, you spend the money you get...

all these groups who charge pennies often charge money here and there for stuff that adds up quite quickly...

BevDel
31-03-2011, 03:41 PM
We charge £35 a term, £105 a year. As a parent I think its really good value compared to what other activities cost. I think we should under value ourselves but keep an eye on affordability!

sailortom
14-04-2011, 10:32 AM
Can anybody beat £27-75 per year?

Made up of £19-75 HQ capitation -50p cheaper because we pay before 23rd April, & £8 to cover the costs of our quarterly magazine.

Every other event / activity is self-funding &/or profit-making.

Akela_Simon
14-04-2011, 10:49 PM
£3 a week at my group... Neckers thrown in for free :0)

Lisnaskea
15-04-2011, 06:45 AM
I think we must nearly be the cheapest out there - £26 per year!

clangers.nsu
18-04-2011, 01:05 PM
We charge £10 per term, £30 per year and events as and when, we do fundraising that enables us to subsidise a lot of events, my group are the lowest subs in the whole of Kent I think !!

dasy2k1
01-05-2011, 06:52 PM
£30 per term (£15 per term for each additional sibling) payable however the parent wishes, (most give us a cheque at the beginning of term but a few pay in 3 instalments of £10 per term or similar.

this works out on average at £2 per week over the whole term. and normally includes a few local days out along with their entry fee for the district swimming gala and the 5 a side competition.

davesailing
05-05-2011, 10:09 AM
i think ours is £150 for scouts and explorers, and a bit less for cubs and a bit less for beavers.
However i think our insurance bill alone was £5400 last year..

Rothley Bill
30-05-2011, 09:26 AM
Our subs are the highest in the district, at £120 per year, We collect the subs via direct debit. the subs are the same for each section. We throw in free neckers, woggles and a free camp/sleepover.
We fundraise for equipment and HQ running costs, so as a section leader I get 80% of the subs to spend on the sections each term. We have our own HQ and run 2 beaver colonies, 2 Cub Packs, 2 Scout Troops and a large waiting list.

DanNixon
06-04-2012, 01:34 PM
At Explorers it is 25.00 per half term, but we only meet fortnightly, do you reckon that is is fair?

jimjam
06-04-2012, 01:53 PM
At explorers it is 10/month plus AMS. However, we have just moved and the hall we have moved to is much cheaper (and larger!). I don't know what they plan to do with subs, but I would think that AMS might be included in the future. But I'm 18 in a couple of weeks, so I'm not going to find out.

At the group where I help out at cubs, we charge 16/term. I think this is the cheapest in the district. This includes AMS but not camps/activities. However, our treasurer is fantastic at applying for grants etc so we can normally subsidise activities and camps.

richardnhunt
06-04-2012, 02:21 PM
However, our treasurer is fantastic at applying for grants etc so we can normally subsidise activities and camps.

Which is great until the funding isn't there or the person changes and suddenly the real cost comes in.

We are looking at offering some subsidised events this year, but not sure how to achieve it without causing a problem down the road. Any ideas or suggestions gratefully received.

Rich

scallywag
08-04-2012, 10:19 PM
Our subs are the highest in the district, at £120 per year, We collect the subs via direct debit. the subs are the same for each section. We throw in free neckers, woggles and a free camp/sleepover.
We fundraise for equipment and HQ running costs, so as a section leader I get 80% of the subs to spend on the sections each term. We have our own HQ and run 2 beaver colonies, 2 Cub Packs, 2 Scout Troops and a large waiting list.

We too charge 120 per year and all pay via s/o. We do this so we can max gift aid.We then pay for things like a trip to see the local gangshow, subisidise summer and group camps and challenge events. We have 3 Colonies, 2 packs , 2 Troops and our own Explorers.

merryweather
09-04-2012, 12:54 PM
We too charge 120 per year and all pay via s/o. We do this so we can max gift aid.

it is irrelevant with regards to GA as to whether you pay in cash, by cheque, or through a SO.

there is no 'max' on GA; it's 20%. if you have every parent signed up then you maximise your GA return. you don't need to have everyone pay by SO to maximise your GA return. it does help with record keeping and transactions are somewhat simpler.


We then pay for things like a trip to see the local gangshow, subisidise summer and group camps and challenge events.

whoa there scally!

you cannot claim GA on payments made to the group, such as 'subscriptions', which have subsequently been used to provide a direct benefit to the donor (e.g. parent) or a connected person (e.g. son/daughter), if the value of the benefit exceeds the relevant/aggregate value test.

on your subscriptions of 120 pa the relevant value test maximum is 25, i.e. your subscriptions can only provide a maximum of 25 direct benefit to each member each year. thus paying from subs for: an 8 gang show ticket one term, 10 subsidy for the district camp for a scout the next term, 10 off annual camp if a scout pays early the following term, and 5 subsidy for the entry for the xmas challenge, say, is in breach of the rules - given that all these come from subs payments and that you claimed GA on the full 120 in the year.

paying for a ticket for the local gangshow is a benefit.

paying a subsidy for camps is a benefit.

paying for challenge events may be a benefit.

if these total >25 then you would be in breach of the GA rules.

the subscriptions my sections levy in my group are only for the benefit of the group and or its sections; they are of no direct benefit to the donor or their connected person(s).

if we organise trips to the gang show we charge the ticket cost. we do not subsidise from group/section funds. we do subsidise from receiving a group discount on the ticket price. of course that benefit doesn't come from subs or from any money for which GA has been claimed.

we charge all camp costs directly. again we offer no subsidy from group/section funds. camp funds are handled/accounted for separately to subscriptions and other costs. if a camp costs 1000 and there are 20 scouts on it then each is charged 50. if after the camp the accounts for it are reckoned and it's found that the camp cost only 900, then each scout is refunded 5. no GA is ever claimed on camping funds/levies.

i'll say again: if you claim GA on subscriptions you must make absolutely sure you follow HMRC rules. if you're not sure about anything then you must ask - either HMRC Charities or your DT. if you're still not sure then the best action is not to claim.

if you do provide 'subsidies' from your subscription funds then you must check that they meet the relevant value test rules.

you do not have to claim GA on all your subscription amount and can make allowances for any subsidies, however, it's much easier to reduce your subs and levy for the subsidy part of activities if this were the case.

do not ever make any GA claim on anything to do with member payments for camps. account for camp payments separate to subscription payments.


We have 3 Colonies, 2 packs , 2 Troops and our own Explorers.

totally irrelevant, but i know you like to keep telling us!

look scally i only have 1 colony, 1 pack and 1 troop and last year posted just 30 on the census. yes i have the smallest group in the district. yes you may think of us as losers and would have 'ofscout' in to close us down asap. ihave far fewer leaders than you. but comparisons with you are irrelevant. so please don't go on about it how great you are. we get the message. we know the sun shines out of your ......

now if you want to be the perfect group that you claim to be, go check that you're not breaking any GA rules!

and you don't have your own (group) explorers! there may be an attached unit, but POR tells you that you don't have your own. (but i suppose you'll just say: sod what POR says; my advice is don't say it!)

cordially yours, TM

Gadgette
09-04-2012, 09:07 PM
At Explorers it is 25.00 per half term, but we only meet fortnightly, do you reckon that is is fair?

We charge 30 per term, weekly meetings, so on first look, yes I would say 25 per half term for fortnightly meetings is high. However, what do you get for that money? Do you get a lot of activities paid for or subsidised?

JPA
10-04-2012, 03:43 PM
Our Scouts Charge 80 a year, this includes the membership subscription.
Cubs charge 25 a term, this does not include the membership subscription.
Beavers charge 1 a week, Beavers normally do a sponsered event to cover membership subscription.

Bagheera28
10-04-2012, 04:50 PM
Our Beavers subs for many years remained at 18.50 per term until the beginning of last year when we had a new BSL take over. First we put them up to 20 for a couple of terms before raising them again last term to 24. At our groups exec meeting last month it was announced that the group account doesn't have enough to pay our hall rent and bills so each section will need to start paying more money to the group and therefore subs must go up dramatically. Reluctantly we've put them up to 36 for this term as we now have less members as some will be swimming up to Cubs in a couple of weeks so we won't be taking subs off them. Even now we're still paying for things out of our own pocket as we just don't have the money to afford all the badges and resources we need to provide a balanced programme. We have tried several fundraisers over the past 12 months but we just aren't getting any support from parents.

big chris
10-04-2012, 04:59 PM
there are a gazillion things wrong with this


Our Beavers subs for many years remained at 18.50 per term until the beginning of last year when we had a new BSL take over. First we put them up to 20 for a couple of terms before raising them again last term to 24. At our groups exec meeting last month it was announced that the group account doesn't have enough to pay our hall rent and bills so each section will need to start paying more money to the group and therefore subs must go up dramatically.



groups shpuld budget...

hall rent = x
AMS = x
section activity costs = x
leader uniform and training = x
other stuff

divide that by number of kids in group and bingo... there is your annual subs (ideally with a margin for error)


Reluctantly we've put them up to 36 for this term

jolly good... you are right to think of the parents'pockets but that is still good value


as we now have less members as some will be swimming up to Cubs in a couple of weeks so we won't be taking subs off them.

the cubs will be taking the money... so the group still gets the money... right?


Even now we're still paying for things out of our own pocket as we just don't have the money to afford all the badges and resources we need to provide a balanced programme.

stop... right now...

do the exec know this? do you have an exec?

apart from anything else, if we had a section who paid for everthing from their own pocket and never told us, we'd not know to give them more money!


We have tried several fundraisers over the past 12 months but we just aren't getting any support from parents.

do you know that you are part of a group? do you have leaders' meertings? an executive? a gsl? a treasurer? anybody?

if your group is skint, you need to stop doing some activities for a year* to recoup some money and you need to budget correctly.

* or be a bit more creative in your accounting...factor in a badge cost to an activity...

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/scout-group-s-future-threatened-by-rent-rise-1-2358658

just saw that... you knew it was coming... the group should not be in this position...

Mark_Uckfield
02-11-2012, 09:52 PM
this seems to have gone very quiet.
looking though all this I thought we were expensive but as we own our HQ our costs are higher I guess.
Until I started working the numbers and now I'm lost.
Subs are 30 scouts 29 cubs and 27 Beavers.
All money is kept in each section and a charge is paid to group per YP per year which does cover capitation scouts 52.50 cubs 51 beavers 45. looks great doesn't it?
remove 32 capitation and group is left with 20.50 for scouts, 19 Cubs and 13 beavers this is per year folks with approx 230 YP that's only 3975 left to pay running costs of 11777. Ok we do get gift aid and I guess that group keep this completely. We do rent the hall but bookings are down and we have a big fund raiser once a year but the weather has been awful the last two years so again that's badly down.

Suddenly the subs don't seem expensive at all :(

shiftypete
02-11-2012, 10:03 PM
At a rough estimate on those figures you could be claiming gift aid of almost 5k a year which makes things seem a lot more reasonable especially if you make a bit of money from external bookings (even 20 a week would be 1k a year).

Mark_Uckfield
02-11-2012, 10:23 PM
ah give the man a pint.

So income is about 8470 a year.

Suddenly I see what our treasurer means about gift aid and what a god send gift aid is :)

Thank you

big chris
02-11-2012, 10:41 PM
this seems to have gone very quiet.
looking though all this I thought we were expensive but as we own our HQ our costs are higher I guess.
Until I started working the numbers and now I'm lost.
Subs are 30 scouts 29 cubs and 27 Beavers.
All money is kept in each section and a charge is paid to group per YP per year which does cover capitation scouts 52.50 cubs 51 beavers 45. looks great doesn't it?
remove 32 capitation and group is left with 20.50 for scouts, 19 Cubs and 13 beavers this is per year folks with approx 230 YP that's only 3975 left to pay running costs of 11777. Ok we do get gift aid and I guess that group keep this completely. We do rent the hall but bookings are down and we have a big fund raiser once a year but the weather has been awful the last two years so again that's badly down.

Suddenly the subs don't seem expensive at all :(


do you not have your accounts? they are prob available at the charity commission website...
nope... you are under the limit (http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=2 91658&SubsidiaryNumber=0)

for example... we have the followin expenses for 11/12 (not including camps etc and money paid to sections to run their own things.

Membership subscriptions paid on 5,244 (that is paid to distirct)
Adult Support & training 120 (low, this year)
Utilities 2,587 (ouch, i know... we do get about a grand back from a neighbour with whom we share a meter... long story)
Professional fees 980 (lawyers for buying a garage and a surveyor)
Insurance 2,630 (cheap)
Bank and similar charges 425
Repairs & Renewals M 1,959 (refurbing the hut)
aterials & Equipment 729 (little bits and bobs around the hut)
Group Administration Costs 1,023 (photocopying, printing, postage and all sorts)
Mini bus costs 1,764 (still cheaper than hiring)
Telephone & Website 571 (including internet at hut)
Uniform & badges 482 (including a little bit of leader uniform)
Burglar alarm 318
Total 18,832

we charge 48/term = 144/year x about 130 subs payers = 18,720

so... even at 48/term (the most locally by quite a way) we are just standing still.

any more needs fundraising!

we were asked how much we charged at a district meeting and as we went around, everybody gasped when i gave our subs amount.

our accounts are here (http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityWithoutPartB.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=1 011301&SubsidiaryNumber=0) if you want to see. 11/12 about to go up.

Mark_Uckfield
02-11-2012, 10:56 PM
I do have the accounts for the last two years and I'm trying to get to grips with them. As I've just taken over I'm reviewing the whole piece so I can get a proper understanding of where we really are. I think the Exec. could spend several k on the HQ on top of the thousands spent in the last few years and I'd love to know if we can afford it.

What do other groups do about reserves/contingency funds?

My daughter tells me I write on these sites really badly so I it seems cold it's just the way the I write.:bigsmiley

shiftypete
02-11-2012, 11:03 PM
Our Group's reserves policy is to at least hold about a year's worth of running costs in reserve. Now its almost impossible for us to have a year's running costs to pay out without income to cover it (for example if we have no members to pay subs then we need pay no membership fees) but the reserves means we always have a comfortable amount in the bank so we are never too concerned about cashflow.

Mark_Uckfield
03-11-2012, 06:26 PM
I think I see why people think we have a years money in reserve. As our agm is in september they look and see 10k in the bank (hey were rich) but they forget that capitation will be paid in march at these costs 7.5k capitation 1.6k insurance and 1.1k in rates/bins. Its all making a lot more sense now, thanks for your input and help

Biscit
05-11-2012, 09:29 AM
My take on where to set the level of subs.

I would rather charge higher subs, and subsidie activities so that the more dedicated kids benefit from the subs of the ones that only turn up half the time rather than low subs and. Fundraising, in my ideal financial model, should go to equipment and enhancing activities, not everyday costs. The subs of kids whose parents who are less well off should be subsidised by better off parents.

Now there is a small snag with the last bit, in that people who balk at subs they can genuinely not afford might just drop out rather than ask for dispensation. I did say it was an ideal financial model :)

Yes false dichotomoy I know and things aren't that simple, but it clearly (and thoughtfully) explains my principles.

Mark_Uckfield
05-11-2012, 09:58 PM
one of the other members has pointed out that if claiming gift aid you cannot subsidise activities as it's a benefit but there is nothing to stop you from asking the people struggling to pay less as your charity status allows you to :)

roger-uk
06-11-2012, 03:24 PM
one of the other members has pointed out that if claiming gift aid you cannot subsidise activities as it's a benefit but there is nothing to stop you from asking the people struggling to pay less as your charity status allows you to :)

You cannot directly subsidise activities ie, Subs are 300 which includes a trip to Paris but you can charge subs and then offer asubsidy to a trip or underwrite a activity.

stuart1
25-11-2012, 06:17 PM
For those groups who are charging low amounts a week, how do they pay for the yearly payment to national. Currently this amounts to around 40 in our county. With all this in mind, we charge 3, but then there is no extra cost to the parents during the year to cover the yearly payment to national and county.

Stuart

Scoutser
08-12-2012, 12:02 AM
2 a week/meeting. Which works out to be 96 a year (but we don't meet every single week of the year, so it's less, around 70-80)

EdClink
10-12-2012, 10:09 PM
84 annually, Either paid as 28 at the start of each term (Jan, May & Sep) or payable by monthly standing order of 7

Don Quixote
10-12-2012, 11:30 PM
None. We believe money raised should benefit todays YP and that when applying for grants a nil balance helps.

daveb123
11-12-2012, 08:53 AM
I take it that your response is not in answer to the question asked which was 'What is your yearly subs'

So presumably you manage to raise all the funds to cover the AMS for your group and generally grants will not cover membership fees.

Rothley Bill
27-12-2012, 12:23 AM
120 per year paid as 12 direct debits of 10 per month.
The direct debit means no chasing subs.
We also fundraise for specific outings, equipment, the HQ etc

richardnhunt
27-12-2012, 06:46 AM
None. We believe money raised should benefit todays YP and that when applying for grants a nil balance helps.

Interesting. I've had a reasonable amount of commentary recently from funders that they are looking for sustainable organisations, which means realistic levels of reserves - i.e. more than none (if I invest 5k in you, I want to know that you will be around to maximise it's use) and not excessive (Why do you need my 5k? - you have 500k of unrestricted, undesignated reserves in the bank.)

We are starting to designate money as reserves now in order to keep clear what is future proofing/sustainability and what is funding for ongoing cash flows.

In terms of the original question, we are 15 per month but as an active sea scout troop with a boathouse full of boats which are used every week in season, there is no additional cost for that.

DonTregartha
27-12-2012, 10:26 AM
Interesting. I've had a reasonable amount of commentary recently from funders that they are looking for sustainable organisations, which means realistic levels of reserves - i.e. more than none (


None. We believe money raised should benefit todays YP and that when applying for grants a nil balance helps.


Nil balance is not realistic.

You should always have a contingency

Never been refused a grant because we have too much money in the bank - usually because our demographics don't match the grant profile.

Just scraping together enough to pay the bills is not sound management.

Madz
22-04-2013, 10:00 AM
25 a term with capitation this year at 33

I should also add we are struggling now at that but as subs have just been increased this year from 60 a year we are seeing how it goes to this point.

GSL-Rob
22-04-2013, 01:26 PM
Currently:

3 per week or 10 a month cash or cheque or 9 a month by standing order Plus an annual membership fee of 20 (15 for first sibling, 10 for subsequent siblings).

From now for all new members, it will be 12 per month by standing order (11 first sibling, 10 subsequent siblings). Same applies to current members from 1st September.

Any exceptions to paying by SO need to be agreed with GSL and/or treasurer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GslNewbie
22-04-2013, 01:44 PM
We have our own hut, so the kids pay 80 (30 x2 and 20) a year to cover all hut running costs and capitation. They then bring 1 a week usually to the hut to cover the running of the meetings, materials etc. if we go out, they pay for the activity (our Cubs just paid 8 for an indoor climbing wall night). Tbh, this keeps us even. Renting the hut makes us a small profit. We have enough reserves to just about cover our butts. In a Utopian world, would love oodles of spare cash, as we have a wish list as long as our arms, mess tent, tables and benches as well as doing loads of work on the hut, as its had no real work done on it since the 80's when it was built, lol!