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stevelinton
01-06-2011, 08:30 AM
Are the first response trainers notes available on-line? I'm helping some one who has to deliver it for the first time. The ADC(AT) sent her a paper copy, but it's at home and she was hoping to do some work on it at lunchtime. I couldn't find them on scouts.org.uk.

Thanks

Steve

BrianM
01-06-2011, 08:42 AM
No, you have to buy them from the info centre.

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Sorry, I should have said:
They are the 2006 edition as far as I know, so rather out of date.

cbKernow
01-06-2011, 08:59 AM
check your Private Message Inbox Steve

jshirra
01-06-2011, 09:21 AM
Sorry, I should have said:
They are the 2006 edition as far as I know, so rather out of date.

Which part would be out of date? AFAIK the last update to CPR was c. 2005/6....

PeterSheppard
01-06-2011, 09:29 AM
Which part would be out of date? AFAIK the last update to CPR was c. 2005/6....

Resus Council published new protocols within the last 6 months! (Although the changes would be minor for something like first response, and the relevant ratios wrt that level haven't changed)

BrianM
01-06-2011, 11:26 AM
The Resus Council UK (and European Resus Council, American Heart Association, etc., etc.) Guidelines 2010 were published on 18 October 2010.

This time there were no major changes, but a change in emphasis (which is quite important).

For CPR (adult) the rate for compressions has been changed from 100/min to 100-120/min, the compression depth from 4-5cm to 5-6cm.
Emphasis on recognising agonal breathing, and not stopping CPR until the casualty is breathing normally, opening eyes and making purposeful movements.

Another change recently was using an arm sling to support a fractured collarbone, rather than an elevation sling.

The 1st Response Trainer's Notes should only be used as a guide. The person delivering the training should be familiar with the latest edition of the First Aid Manual of the Voluntary Aid Societies (currently the revised 9th Edition).

I normally issue the Purple Card to the course delegates and also point out that the AMS that they pay every year (or is paid for them), includes public liability insurance for: (a) treating casualties and (b) teaching first aid to the members of their Sections.

nele
02-06-2011, 02:04 PM
Has anyone else been told that first response is being replaced with British Red Cross Practical FA (1 day cert)?

As I've seen no announcements or changes to POR perhaps this just means that scout trainers here will be offering this externally recognised course rather first response in the future. Or that changes are coming but nothing has been announced yet.

PeterSheppard
02-06-2011, 02:46 PM
Our district have been offering British Red Cross Practical First Aid for the last 2 years since they decided not to run FAaW any more.

But it's a 2 day (14 hour) course. They run it as an alternative/addition to first response.

BrianM
02-06-2011, 05:04 PM
Has anyone else been told that first response is being replaced with British Red Cross Practical FA (1 day cert)?



The basic minimum first aid course remains First Response or equivalent. The Red Cross have been pushing Practical First Aid and have an agreement with the SA to offer a Trainer course to leaders so that they can deliver it.

It is offered in some areas as an alternative to First Response. I'm not sure what the take-up is as it is a kind of "in between" course. It is not much use to anybody if they also want a first aid certificate in their employment, as it is not recognised as far as I know in the Early Years environment, and neither does it have HSE recognition in the workplace.

Whether it is suitable for Activity Instructors who require a "full first aid course", I don't know - but I suspect not.

nele
02-06-2011, 05:40 PM
Sorry I may have got the name of the courses mixed up. Practical and General first aid were the 2 BRC courses mentioned: One is the 1 day red cross course and apparently the alternative to first response, the other is 2 day and apparently the minimum for outdoor activites and expeditions..

Personally I just renewed a Belgian RC 12 hour course: when I last did it, it was 30+ hours but they have now changed to 2 x 12 hour courses which build on each other. So the first 12 hours covers CPR and similar stuff to first response but in more detail and the other bit goes into a lot more detail.

BrianM
02-06-2011, 05:52 PM
Personally I just renewed a Belgian RC 12 hour course: when I last did it, it was 30+ hours but they have now changed to 2 x 12 hour courses which build on each other. So the first 12 hours covers CPR and similar stuff to first response but in more detail and the other bit goes into a lot more detail.

This reflects what St John Ambulance have been doing in the UK since the beginning of 2007 - a series of modular courses from a basic 3 hours up to about 28 hours. The First Response is 6 hours, for comparison.

nele
02-06-2011, 05:56 PM
This reflects what St John Ambulance have been doing in the UK since the beginning of 2007 - a series of modular courses from a basic 3 hours up to about 28 hours. The First Response is 6 hours, for comparison.

yeah I know about first response as I have helped set up several courses locally, I just got someone in to do the training. Sometimes I was around to sort out coffee etc. I have also checked peoples FA certificates for equivalency. I am not worried about my qualfication. I am just surprised that if there are going to be changes to the minimum levels that this wasn't widely published.

Sam.Marks
08-07-2011, 11:46 AM
They will be available shortly. GGUK actually writes the First Response updates, and have finally decided the the impending reprint will also be available as a PDF. Info with go out in the training enews and on noticeboard once I get them
Sam

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Also, First Response will not be changing. The relationship with Have with BRC enables us to offer First Aid certs that are useful outside of Scouting. First REsponse is not recognised outside of Scouting.
Sam

MikeGH
28-08-2011, 07:51 PM
I see from the latest scouting Plus that the PPT is the only thing being released other than in paper format.... disappointing. :rolleyes:

BrianM
28-08-2011, 09:51 PM
At least the Powerpoint presentation is current and accurate. The printed Participant's Notes are reasonably current and accurate (2005 Guidelines), and I only need point out the variations in emphasis from the 2010 Guidelines (see my post no.14 above), which can be a useful teaching point.

When I first started delivering the First Response course (xxx years ago) ;)
I was very disturbed by the printed notes that were issued then - out of date and quite wrong in places. I had to give out 2 sheets of corrections to the students. I could tell from one particlar error that whoever had written the book was referring to a first aid manual that was 15 years out of date.

So I am quite happy with the printed books - I don't use the PPT as it doesn't cover some parts of the course and is very basic as such things go.

Lister
04-01-2012, 12:49 PM
Saw that BHF have started a new campaign with Vinnie Jones fronting it, it's rather strange to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ILxjxfB4zNk

http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/life-saving-skills/hands-only-cpr.aspx

The focus being on compression only CPR - "Hands-Only CPR".

Chris Lambert
04-01-2012, 01:43 PM
Though the important point you didn't mention:

She said the kiss of life remained the "gold standard" of CPR, but added if a person had not had training the best option would be to just do chest compressions. (Source BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16222183))

Full CPR is better but "Hands Only" is better than nothing.

trevscout
10-01-2012, 05:24 AM
I work for St John Ambulance delivering first aid training in schools and the community (don't do very much commercial work) and lots of what's been said before is really good but we must remember that first aid practice is changing constantly. Some of those changes get lots of publicity but others don't. I regularly meet adults who want to stop a nose bleed by tilting the head backwards - this changed years ago! First Response training is ok - providing a basic level of training appropriate to the needs of leaders. The resources are 'naff' but it's the content (and delivery of that content) that's important. Whilst the SA has a relationship with BRC to enable leaders to receive training to deliver first aid courses, it is important to remember that First Response is a 'child focussed' course. Most first aid training delivered to adults is adult focused and I always expect anyone validating module 10 to be familiar with child CPR, children's ailments and heat related issues (none of which is covered in any HSE work related course). The SA is working hard to make Scouting safer for our young people .... The requirement to have some minimum first aid qualifications is a vital part of this.