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richardnhunt
16-04-2014, 09:22 AM
Morning all

Am gradually redoing our groups adult training - looking to recruit TAs and as part of this I am thinking about electronic recording not of just completion, but of evidence - the idea being that those involved could "slot" evidence into each trainees electronic folder - as such I would want access for:

Trainee
TA
Others involved in validation - e.g. section leader, GSL/AGSLs

I could do something using drop box, but would be grateful for whether anyone else has sorted this kind of thing.

cheers

Rich

Bushfella
16-04-2014, 09:46 AM
Morning all

Am gradually redoing our groups adult training - looking to recruit TAs and as part of this I am thinking about electronic recording not of just completion, but of evidence - the idea being that those involved could "slot" evidence into each trainees electronic folder - as such I would want access for:

Trainee
TA
Others involved in validation - e.g. section leader, GSL/AGSLs

I could do something using drop box, but would be grateful for whether anyone else has sorted this kind of thing.

cheers

Rich


Dare I say it... Compass...

recneps
16-04-2014, 09:56 AM
Dare I say it... Compass...

I bit back the temptation to start that one Ewan!

I doubt compass will meet the evidence-file need that Rich is looking for. That said, do you really need to keep evidence once its been signed off?

big chris
16-04-2014, 10:44 AM
i would like to see TAs trusted to do some of the training updating themselves

we have TAs who have to do a day course, an annual day refresher and still cannot do anything but pass info to an LTM who then does the updating.

It is a silly extra level of admin that disheartens and annoys

Walsallwizard
16-04-2014, 11:22 AM
I have been told that when Compass arrives I as a TA will be able to update records for my trainees… to do this I have to email the DC and CTM and they will do it… oh hang on… that’s the same as now so no change then :banana:

Richard
16-04-2014, 11:22 AM
i would like to see TAs trusted to do some of the training updating themselves

we have TAs who have to do a day course, an annual day refresher and still cannot do anything but pass info to an LTM who then does the updating.

It is a silly extra level of admin that disheartens and annoys

Totally agree

merryweather
16-04-2014, 12:40 PM
i would like to see TAs trusted to do some of the training updating themselves

we have TAs who have to do a day course, an annual day refresher and still cannot do anything but pass info to an LTM who then does the updating.

It is a silly extra level of admin that disheartens and annoys

i agree that all this business with the territorial army (TA) is a little OTT. i haven't been out with the Territorial Army since i was in the cadets a long time ago. one of my friends was a reservist with logistics some years back.

can we not get back to scouting and leave all this talk of the territorials behind?

regards, TM

GScrimgeour
16-04-2014, 12:40 PM
Morning all

Am gradually redoing our groups adult training - looking to recruit TAs and as part of this I am thinking about electronic recording not of just completion, but of evidence - the idea being that those involved could "slot" evidence into each trainees electronic folder - as such I would want access for:

Trainee
TA
Others involved in validation - e.g. section leader, GSL/AGSLs

I could do something using drop box, but would be grateful for whether anyone else has sorted this kind of thing.

cheers

Rich

As TA, I keep the PLP for each trainee in a dropbox folder which is shared with all leaders in the group (I only support trainees within the group due to other roles). The aim being that the trainee can check the master copy for status and notes (eg where we have discussed and agreed a route to validation that they are following, this is noted in the plan). However the TA (me) should update it to record agreed actions and validation, rather than the trainee. "Evidence" should, I think, be discussed and agreed in a validation discussion between trainee and TA.

I work on the basis that "a Scout is to be trusted" (and dropbox shows me who has amended a file and keeps previous versions).

I do have to get the LTM to update the training record, but have agreed that they will do so based on email confirmation from me of modules having been validated.

fmolesey
16-04-2014, 12:54 PM
It is madness that TAs can't update records.

jry20
16-04-2014, 01:05 PM
i would like to see TAs trusted to do some of the training updating themselves


At least in Oxfordshire all TAs are given a Training Advisor (Admin) role in MMS. Hence we can edit the training record of anyone in the county. In practise this means I can meet a learner to validate some modules, and update their training directly afterwards. I only need to contact our LTM when they have finished - so they can send the woodbadge request to Gilwell. This works very well. It's a shame other places don't seem to do the same.

Jon

big chris
16-04-2014, 01:08 PM
At least in Oxfordshire all TAs are given a Training Advisor (Admin) role in MMS. Hence we can edit the training record of anyone in the county. In practise this means I can meet a learner to validate some modules, and update their training directly afterwards. I only need to contact our LTM when they have finished - so they can send the woodbadge request to Gilwell. This works very well. It's a shame other places don't seem to do the same.

Jon

Our TA has just about given up all enthusiasm for the role. We've waited months and months for training to go online by LTM. reading between the lines, everybody has given up on the LTM and we are now go to somebody else but people are too nice to tell the LTM that if training is not going online, they should not be in the role.

PaulArthurs
16-04-2014, 02:00 PM
i would like to see TAs trusted to do some of the training updating themselves

we have TAs who have to do a day course, an annual day refresher and still cannot do anything but pass info to an LTM who then does the updating.

It is a silly extra level of admin that disheartens and annoys

If a CR is submitted to change the TA to "TA(Admin)" then they will be able to update training records!

Paul

big chris
16-04-2014, 02:02 PM
If a CR is submitted to change the TA to "TA(Admin)" then they will be able to update training records!

Paul

but that is not allowed around here, it seems

i think it is to keep validation is consistent. I guess that if nobody is validated, we are guaranteed 100% consistency.

nele
16-04-2014, 02:23 PM
We have an LTA whose role is soley to put the items online when TA's send them through to her. So I validate someone and send details through to her. Which is Ok except when there is a misunderstanding and someone gets validated by accident for the wrong module which can only be changed by contacting Gilwell.

Personally it would be a lot easier for me just to do it myself as I did in the past, but that is the system we have in place. Its apparently cut down on errors..

recneps
16-04-2014, 02:30 PM
We have an LTA whose role is soley to put the items online when TA's send them through to her. So I validate someone and send details through to her. Which is Ok except when there is a misunderstanding and someone gets validated by accident for the wrong module which can only be changed by contacting Gilwell.

Personally it would be a lot easier for me just to do it myself as I did in the past, but that is the system we have in place. Its apparently cut down on errors..

I really do loathe inefficient systems like that.

Its like having paper forms that have to be passed around to be signed by differnet people when a quick email confirmation would suffice. its extra work for the sake of extra work. Or a mistrust of sharing responsibilities. One or the other.

I'd really like to see the whole compass system allow much simpler data entry. If people are really that worried an online approval step could easily be added.

e.g for recruiting an adult:

Adult fills in the online form with their details
It goes to the GSL who clicks to approve
It goes to the DC if this step is really needed!
Their role appears as pre-provisional until the crb has come back
The system automatically fires a web link to the referees to fill in the reference on an online system. The result is then forwarded on to the appointments secretary
The AAC Secretary approves the references and enters the interview result.
Job done, and not a sheet of paper in sight.

Training should be even simpler

TA enters details
LTM clicks approve.

richardnhunt
16-04-2014, 05:40 PM
I have been told that when Compass arrives I as a TA will be able to update records for my trainees… to do this I have to email the DC and CTM and they will do it… oh hang on… that’s the same as now so no change then :banana:

Cheers but am looking at a way to store evidence - effectively to move to a non physical portfolio.

Rich

recneps
16-04-2014, 05:47 PM
Cheers but am looking at a way to store evidence - effectively to move to a non physical portfolio.

Rich

Do you have a reason to, once the module is validated, retain the evidence?

richardnhunt
16-04-2014, 06:09 PM
Yep - our LTM has always wanted to see a portfolio (I know - gilding the lilly but its not a battle I can win)

Also - want to build up evidence prior to validation

Rich

big chris
16-04-2014, 06:27 PM
Yep - our LTM has always wanted to see a portfolio (I know - gilding the lilly but its not a battle I can win)

Also - want to build up evidence prior to validation

Rich

our training team told us (with styraight faces) that we need the portfolios in case gilwell request them and assess the learning. We could have our wood beads removed if we don't!

sigh.

roger-uk
16-04-2014, 07:10 PM
our training team told us (with styraight faces) that we need the portfolios in case gilwell request them and assess the learning. We could have our wood beads removed if we don't!

sigh.

You are joking right :)

recneps
16-04-2014, 07:13 PM
our training team told us (with styraight faces) that we need the portfolios in case gilwell request them and assess the learning. We could have our wood beads removed if we don't!

sigh.

Never seen that one in POR.... so they could have fun removing the badges.

Once again this brings us back to the first scout law.

Perhaps it should be rewritten as "a scout is to be trusted... but an adult member should not under any circumstances be trusted by anyone above them in the organisation"

recneps
16-04-2014, 07:15 PM
Yep - our LTM has always wanted to see a portfolio (I know - gilding the lilly but its not a battle I can win)

Also - want to build up evidence prior to validation

Rich

Wow... so assuming at least 100 adults in the district. Thats at least 30 a year doing first response, and the same doing safeguarding. In reality about half of them are probably working towards their woodbadge. Thats a hell of a lot of portfolios for the LTM to be checking, even in a small district.

marcush
16-04-2014, 08:18 PM
only read first page, TA (Admins) are TAs and they can update records.

richardnhunt
16-04-2014, 08:52 PM
Wow... so assuming at least 100 adults in the district. Thats at least 30 a year doing first response, and the same doing safeguarding. In reality about half of them are probably working towards their woodbadge. Thats a hell of a lot of portfolios for the LTM to be checking, even in a small district.

More worrying is that no one questions the low level of validation - but heck I am drifting my own thread off topic now!

nele
16-04-2014, 09:39 PM
our training team told us (with styraight faces) that we need the portfolios in case gilwell request them and assess the learning. We could have our wood beads removed if we don't!

sigh.
We were told that Gilwell occasionally request copies so they can check that a consistent standard is being acheived across the country. I know we used to have to send in the full portfolio to the CTM when we recommended wood beads- but that hasn't happened for several years.

I don't think they ever remove validations from the trainees records (unless it's just correcting an entry error). However if the TA is shown to have been validating inappropriately I would think it was normal that their appointment was reviewed, and they were asked to undertake more training or additional measures put in place.

jry20
16-04-2014, 11:01 PM
We were told that Gilwell occasionally request copies so they can check that a consistent standard is being acheived across the country. I know we used to have to send in the full portfolio to the CTM when we recommended wood beads- but that hasn't happened for several years.


The Training Advisers Guide makes no mention of any requirement to have a portfolio of evidence for woodbadge modules. I have had learners who did keep their own detailed records - but I've also had learners who had no paper records: validation was done by discussion, demonstration and witness statement. Whichever way works best for them. Some counties do seem to make training far more bureaucratic than it needs to be.

If a learner is registered for the open college network they do need documentation for each woodbadge module - and that is sent off for moderation (to Gilwell iirc). However, I've not had a leader sign up for this (nor even heard of one doing so).

roger-uk
16-04-2014, 11:40 PM
I personally keep all my training records and its stood me in good stead when something has been queried and District / County records have been lacking.

Nice A5 plastic button down folder from Rymans and its a job well done - still have my origional warrant from 1995 :)