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MollyBloom
24-04-2014, 09:38 PM
An activity day for cubs in Devon was held recently and 7 of my cubs wanted to go. I found out about it just as the deadline was up and checked that it would still be OK to attend. Despite chivying parents, forms and money were slow coming in and as I only see the cubs once a week, if they forgot to bring them, I had to wait another week. Eventually, I was told that although the deadline had been extended, we had taken too long getting our forms and money in so couldn't go. I tried several times to ring the assistant county commissioner, who was coordinating the event, but had no luck so I emailed her and offered to drive the paperwork to her. She was worried the cubs would be disappointed that they didn't receive a badge etc and although I said they wouldn't be, she decided that on this occasion she was going to say no because she'd confirmed numbers.

On our first meeting back tonight, one of the cubs came up to me proudly showing me the badge he'd got from the activity day which his Mum had taken him and his friend to - the same activity day I was told we couldn't attend!!!!!!!!!! I'm mad at the cub Mum who, as I see it, went behind my back and undermined me, and I'm also mad at the assistant county commissioner who has not only made me look like an idiot by allowing this Mum to take the 2 cubs, but also cross that she couldn't squeeze in 7 cubs but she could make an allowance for 2 - what are the other 5 cubs and their parents supposed to think? :mad: Why were their forms and money not too late?

Do you think I should just let this go and put it down to experience, or take it further and write letters expressing my feelings?

Barney255
24-04-2014, 09:45 PM
I'd let it go - you did your best to get all 7 there.

Barney

RisingStar
24-04-2014, 09:55 PM
Let it go, never go into battle with parents, they may have bigger and more numerous friends than you do. Ultimately it may simply have been that the mother didn't want her children disappointed (not intending to undermine you) and that the organiser had 2 spare places, or two cancellations, but not 7 spares.

You'll look the bigger person for ignoring it.

big chris
24-04-2014, 10:16 PM
Life is too short. Move on. Be awesome.

merryweather
25-04-2014, 02:19 AM
actually the advice to let it go and move on has probably made you even angrier and more upset, i guess. it's too easy for me to say let it go, but i'm not in your shoes so i'm not going to do so.

there are some things you cannot let go and this is one of those occasions. however, getting angry and responding forcefully is not going to work and will likely make matters worse. furthermore, i'm not sure that your annoyance should be directed at the mum, they might have simply responded to a late request from another channel and saw an opportunity without thinking about the consequences. i think your annoyance is better directed at the acc because it's actually they who have undermined you.

so write a letter, fire-off an e-mail, pick up the phone? no! all that is likely to result in is more upset. i can probably guess what's happened in that the mum either has a contact or approached directly and asked just at the same time as another pack has rung in and downsized their numbers and the acc has looked to recover potential losses by selling on the places; or some such like. done without thinking methinks!

i would wait until you next meet the acc and have an opportunity just for a quiet word to say how you felt - don't get angry, don't raise your voice, keep calm. you never know but they may explain to you why they did what they did and apologise. but don't hang-on for an apology. just quietly and calmly say how you felt let down and so too did others in your pack and that a better course of action would have been for none or all seven to go to the event. i think you also need to temper what you say with the fact that you were late in getting in your numbers and payment, though not helped by parents dawdling and being lackadaisical. an impartial outsider may lay blame on everyone involved. and that's the point really, in these instances there are no winners and no one is without blame. so....7, 8, 9, 10......and then calmly and succinctly say how you feel at the outcome, apologise for being late, and then move on.

something along these lines of: 'hi acc! thank you for sorting out at last minute for robert and gary to go on the cub fun day the other month. sorry we were late in getting the details and money to you. next time, if this happens, would you mind giving me a call so that i know what's happening so i don't have to feel awkward in explaining to other parents why their cubs missed out?'

of course you don't want this to happen again. so with the support of your GSL you need to put in place a clear policy on signing up for activities/events and payment of any fees, especially when things come up at late notice or requiring a fast response. you know your pack/parents, so you should know how they respond to late notice of events, and if they do so tardily, then it might be best not to push to go at late notice in future and avoid all this angst.

of course put it down to experience; learn from it; and put measures in place so it's less likely to happen again.

i would be fuming if it had happened to me and i can't tell you what i'd want to do to the scouter who had undermined me! what would i do?

go and lock myself in cubicle 4, get angry, shout and scream for 10s, and then calm down, take a deep breath......and bide my time for the opportunity for a timely response.

no matter how much you feel you'd like to respond now, don't! now is not the right time; pick your time.

hth

TM

roger-uk
25-04-2014, 04:16 AM
I think one thing to learn is if you have a deadline stick too it

Tony Ransley
25-04-2014, 06:02 AM
Hi

As someone who rarely attends boring meetings and therefore often finds themselves in 'OH ***** it's next week! ' mode can I suggest.


People to get mad at;

The person who should have attended the meeting when the activity day was proposed.

The person who should have joined the activity day planning group and got your group on the inside track.

The person who didn't E Mail the ACC as soon as they found out they had cubs wanting to attend and instead wasted time waiting for a busy person to be in long enough to answer the phone.

The person who having decided that despite missing the deadline they were going to 'Blag It' and ask everyone else to put themselves out but weren't going to make any extra effort to get the forms and money in for an entire week.

The person who hasn't realised that you have a parent who can clearly Blag things better than you can but hasn't pointed them out to you so that you can use that very valuable talent for the rest of the pack.

As most of the time the only person I can honestly get mad at is me, I tend not to waste useful energy on getting mad and use it to refine our groups OH ! ****** it's next week ! procedure which includes knowing who the really good blaggers are and having them on stand by.

The alternative to having an OH! ****** It's next week ! procedure is to attend the boring meetings, volunteer to organise the event yourself or read your e mails and who wants to do that certainly not me.

merryweather
25-04-2014, 07:09 AM
Hi

As someone who rarely attends boring meetings and therefore often finds themselves in 'OH ***** it's next week! ' mode can I suggest.



sadly i attend boring meetings so that i can find out.


People to get mad at;

The person who should have attended the meeting when the activity day was proposed.

quite possibly, however, we don't know if one took place.


The person who should have joined the activity day planning group and got your group on the inside track.

quite possibly, however, we don't know if one existed.


The person who didn't E Mail the ACC as soon as they found out they had cubs wanting to attend and instead wasted time waiting for a busy person to be in long enough to answer the phone.


er.................the OP said that they got in touch as soon as they found out this event was taking place. they didn't say by what method contact was initiated.

we do not have enough details of what took place leading up to this and we only have the OP's story; let's not guess.


The person who having decided that despite missing the deadline they were going to 'Blag It' and ask everyone else to put themselves out but weren't going to make any extra effort to get the forms and money in for an entire week.

they missed the deadline. they had to wait a week. they do not say why they had to wait a week. we do not know how much or how little effort was put in.


The person who hasn't realised that you have a parent who can clearly Blag things better than you can but hasn't pointed them out to you so that you can use that very valuable talent for the rest of the pack.


no information was given as to how the parent found out or how they 'blagged' their way in. they may be a pushy parent, they may have known a friend of a friend of the acc. let's not surmise.


As most of the time the only person I can honestly get mad at is me, I tend not to waste useful energy on getting mad and use it to refine our groups OH ! ****** it's next week ! procedure which includes knowing who the really good blaggers are and having them on stand by.

i think your guess that this might have been simply a case of who was the best blagger may potentially be a little wide of the mark.


The alternative to having an OH! ****** It's next week ! procedure is to attend the boring meetings, volunteer to organise the event yourself or read your e mails and who wants to do that certainly not me.

no one is a winner here. blame does not just lie with the OP. they could've and possibly should've done things better. the acc should've not granted an extension which opened up the possibility of things going awry. the parent should've thought about how their actions might be viewed by others.

a learning experience for all involved methinks.

cordially yours, TM

JohnR
25-04-2014, 07:15 AM
This was a County day organised by the ACC with information 'cascaded' through ADCs. Didn't your ADC pass on the information to you in good time?

The ACC didn't want names or forms, she wanted numbers from the Pack and the money. If I'd been you, when she first said that she could take your 7 Cubs after the deadline, I would have said thankyou, confirmed numbers at 7, put a cheque in the post, then started the struggle with parents to complete forms and pay money. That last bit is a Pack problem, not the ACC's problem.

Then on the day, well, what it sounds like to me is that one mum took a couple of kids down anyway - and what was the ACC to do, tell them to go away or try to fit them in?

merryweather
25-04-2014, 07:52 AM
The ACC didn't want names or forms, she wanted numbers from the Pack and the money. If I'd been you, when she first said that she could take your 7 Cubs after the deadline, I would have said thankyou, confirmed numbers at 7, put a cheque in the post, then started the struggle with parents to complete forms and pay money. That last bit is a Pack problem, not the ACC's problem.

this is exactly what i would've done! and occasionally have to do!

there are packs which will not pay up front and collect later, which is what you invariably have to do when missing a deadline, but they accept that they have to push to get the money in on time or forfeit going on the activity.

there are packs who will pay up front and either struggle to collect money in afterwards or suffer people pulling out on the day, which often leads to the pack making a financial loss. some packs accept the loss as it might be small when all things are considered. some packs accept the loss but send out a warning about late payment for the next event. some packs accept the loss because they have built in contingency for such events into their subscription level; in the end parents pay either way.

i generally know which events my cubs will want to attend and know if i pay up front i'll get the money in later. there are some events which i have to take a bit more of 'a punt' on and accept the loss if someone pulls out late. we have an in-built contingency in our subs to allow for such. there are some events for which i get the money in on time.

would i pay up-front for my 39 cubs to attend the county bog-snorkelling competition at 11 per cub? er.....no!

would i pay up-front for a team in the swimming gala at 25 per team? er......yes! and i often have to do so while they argue over which events they're swimming in!!

it's a matter of being flexible, but i know some packs/leaders are unwilling to be too flexible in these matters. i know some who would fear getting hauled over the coals by the GEC if they had to stand a large loss. luckily my GSL and GEC are flexible and understanding and our policies don't tie leaders down too much.

experience.

cordially yours, TM

Tony Ransley
25-04-2014, 08:03 AM
sadly i attend boring meetings so that i can find out.



quite possibly, however, we don't know if one took place.



quite possibly, however, we don't know if one existed.



er.................the OP said that they got in touch as soon as they found out this event was taking place. they didn't say by what method contact was initiated.

we do not have enough details of what took place leading up to this and we only have the OP's story; let's not guess.



they missed the deadline. they had to wait a week. they do not say why they had to wait a week. we do not know how much or how little effort was put in.



no information was given as to how the parent found out or how they 'blagged' their way in. they may be a pushy parent, they may have known a friend of a friend of the acc. let's not surmise.



i think your guess that this might have been simply a case of who was the best blagger may potentially be a little wide of the mark.



no one is a winner here. blame does not just lie with the OP. they could've and possibly should've done things better. the acc should've not granted an extension which opened up the possibility of things going awry. the parent should've thought about how their actions might be viewed by others.

a learning experience for all involved methinks.

cordially yours, TM


My point was rather than get mad at what has already happened the OP should learn from it.

We have an OH ! ***** it's next week ! procedure because as a group we tend to have difficulty attending all the meetings perhaps we should and can get surprised by deadlines for events we would have known about had we attended, we view this as our responsibility no one else's.

If you are trying to get an urgent message to someone who is not answering the phone then sending an E mail is better than not communicating by phone, it is timed and dated and gives your information in writing better for everyone.

JohnR also points out that getting the group to put the money up front and collecting it afterwards from the parents could have secured the places, it's a risk but that is what goes with operating the OH ! ***** it's next week ! procedure, as does been willing to spend several adrenaline filled hours running round like a blue butted fly instead of the two hours at the district meeting.

As leaders we have the choice of where we invest our time and energy we can spend it attending all the meetings, we can spend it on the Oh ! ***** it's next week! procedure or we can spend it getting mad at people who haven't actually done much wrong.

Personally I would be looking to get that parent involved with running the pack but that's because I like people who are better at things than me.

Tony Ransley
25-04-2014, 09:44 AM
er.................the OP said that they got in touch as soon as they found out this event was taking place. they didn't say by what method contact was initiated.

I was referring to

Tony Ransley
25-04-2014, 09:46 AM
I tried several times to ring the assistant county commissioner, who was coordinating the event, but had no luck so I emailed her and offered to drive the paperwork to her.

This...

Newbb
25-04-2014, 10:27 AM
Sounds like a parent itching to become a leader! ;)

RisingStar
25-04-2014, 11:18 AM
....

The ACC didn't want names or forms, she wanted numbers from the Pack and the money. If I'd been you, when she first said that she could take your 7 Cubs after the deadline, I would have said thankyou, confirmed numbers at 7, put a cheque in the post, then started the struggle with parents to complete forms and pay money. That last bit is a Pack problem, not the ACC's problem.......

This !

Maybe another good reason to avoid spreading the pain is that by taking the action that JohnR suggested then all 7 could have attended, so you could look closer to home for blame - not that I would blame you or anyone else it's best to learn and move on.

merryweather
25-04-2014, 11:19 AM
My point was rather than get mad at what has already happened the OP should learn from it.


and my point is that from the sound of the OP's post they're already mad! the key thing is not to let this go further by shooting off phone calls, letters or e-mails, but we can't simply ignore the fact that the OP seems upset.


We have an OH ! ***** it's next week ! procedure because as a group we tend to have difficulty attending all the meetings perhaps we should and can get surprised by deadlines for events we would have known about had we attended, we view this as our responsibility no one else's.

we have no idea what was the reason for the delay in the OP getting the information! it could've been through them not attending a meeting, or ignoring an e-mail, or by someone else not passing on the details. i am not going to blame the OP for this but simply accept it happened whoever was to blame, if there was any.


If you are trying to get an urgent message to someone who is not answering the phone then sending an E mail is better than not communicating by phone, it is timed and dated and gives your information in writing better for everyone.

if you want to get an urgent message to someone then face-to-face beats everything else!


JohnR also points out that getting the group to put the money up front and collecting it afterwards from the parents could have secured the places, it's a risk but that is what goes with operating the OH ! ***** it's next week ! procedure, as does been willing to spend several adrenaline filled hours running round like a blue butted fly instead of the two hours at the district meeting.

i think a good bit of advice for the OP would be to say that if they found themselves in such a situation in the future, where they had got an extension to a deadline but they were now in danger of failing to meet the extension, the best thing would have been to pay up front and collect afterwards, as JR correctly points out. in fact what is a little surprising here is that the ACC granted an extension for the OP to sort out arrangements rather than simply say: you're late but if you tell me the numbers now and get me a pack cheque by tonight, then you can go. most extensions i experience allow time for payment, not time for trying to organise a group, send out forms, gather in money, sort out payment cheque and such like.


As leaders we have the choice of where we invest our time and energy we can spend it attending all the meetings, we can spend it on the Oh ! ***** it's next week! procedure or we can spend it getting mad at people who haven't actually done much wrong.

if blame is to be apportioned then it falls on everyone here. maybe with some more information we could heave it on to one person more than another, but i don't think anyone can avoid blame.


Personally I would be looking to get that parent involved with running the pack but that's because I like people who are better at things than me.

we have absolutely no idea how the parent managed to get the two cubs into the event. what we do know is that they were late in the first place - from which we can reasonably assume the 7 who wanted to go were out. then the OP got an extension - so the 7 were back in again. then the OP was late with the extension - so the 7 were out again. then the parent took the 2 cubs there - and the 2 were back in again! more up and downs than a yo-yo! what would have happened if the OP had taken the 7 down to the event on the day? would this have been seen a them trying to bully their way in? or would they have maybe used emotional blackmail and the kids were let in so as to not upset them? we have no idea!

you cannot have parents taking udi-type decisions in place of the leader in this sort of occasion. if the kids in my pack wish to do cub scouting outside of the pack programme with another scouting entity then they need to inform the CSL or failing that the GSL; that didn't happen here.

cordially yours, TM

merryweather
25-04-2014, 11:36 AM
This...

you're assuming that the OP's phone calls were made half-heartedly over the week when the extension deadline had passed.

The OP said: 'Eventually, I was told that although the deadline had been extended, we had taken too long getting our forms and money in so couldn't go. I tried several times to ring the assistant county commissioner, who was coordinating the event, but had no luck so I emailed her and offered to drive the paperwork to her.'

the first sentence is interesting because it doesn't seem to tally with the second. if they had been told they couldn't go by the ACC because they were now definitely too late, why bother trying to contact the ACC and why, when they did manage to get in touch, did the ACC then make the decision not to let this pack take part?

the big lesson for the OP to take from this is if you're late in submitting forms/payment you run the risk of not being able to take part and if granted an extension then you must take speedy action to get at least numbers and payment in without delay, preferably by paying from pack contingency funds and popping round to the organiser's house with the cheque pdq.

others also need to learn that decisions need to be fair and consistent.

regards, TM

RisingStar
25-04-2014, 11:38 AM
and my point is that from the sound of the OP's post they're already mad! the key thing is not to let this go further by shooting off phone calls, letters or e-mails, but we can't simply ignore the fact that the OP seems upset.
..........

And yet by doing it differently he could have ensured all 7 had gone - so who should get mad with whom ?

That's what I had to do with the Malvern Challenge when it run, who were notorious about their early registration and payment - you paid early from troop funds and collected later, sometimes you might lose out, with such a popular event which was oversubscribed you could always fill places for those who dropped out or never paid.

merryweather
25-04-2014, 11:53 AM
And yet by doing it differently he could have ensured all 7 had gone - so who should get mad with whom ?

of course!

however, we have little information about how the lateness came about, other than it happened. and from reading the OP we also know they are upset/mad. whether they should be upset/mad is not what i'm asking! i'm simply stating that they are upset. what would be a mistake for the OP to do now would be to take that anger and do something silly.


That's what I had to do with the Malvern Challenge when it run, who were notorious about their early registration and payment - you paid early from troop funds and collected later, sometimes you might lose out, with such a popular event which was oversubscribed you could always fill places for those who dropped out or never paid.

of course!

this would in all likelihood have ensured the 7 went to the event. we don't know whether the OP had considered this or not, if they hadn't that was an error of judgement. however, they may also not have been in position to do this. i know of groups where expenditure needs to be approved. i know of groups where the petty cash is small and won't cover such contingencies. i know of groups where the cheque signatories are not easy to get hold of. i know of groups who have a policy of collecting in money from parents first before they'll issue a cheque to the leader.

it is surprising that the OP didn't seem to consider this course of action, however, once again, we need to be careful in advising where we don't know all the circumstances.

regards, TM

Simon.md
25-04-2014, 05:41 PM
On our first meeting back tonight, one of the cubs came up to me proudly showing me the badge he'd got from the activity day which his Mum had taken him and his friend to - the same activity day I was told we couldn't attend!!!!!!!!!! I'm mad at the cub Mum who, as I see it, went behind my back and undermined me, and I'm also mad at the assistant county commissioner who has not only made me look like an idiot by allowing this Mum to take the 2 cubs, but also cross that she couldn't squeeze in 7 cubs but she could make an allowance for 2 - what are the other 5 cubs and their parents supposed to think? :mad: Why were their forms and money not too late?

Do you think I should just let this go and put it down to experience, or take it further and write letters expressing my feelings?

Presumably Cub and friend wanted to go to the activity day, Mum has arranged for them to go and they had a good day. Don't see anything wrong with that myself.

ACC.... Let it go is probably best and look at how you can get everyone signed up in time for the next event so you don't miss out again. Might be worth asking for more notice I guess but without knowing details of why you found out late hard to say. If you are "mad" at the ACC then I suspect expressing this to them will not help! Measured dialogue looking at how to improve things for next time seems better to me if you want to do something now.

Shaun
25-04-2014, 06:31 PM
From what I have read:
Parents were late returning forms and payment so missed out on an event.
You attempted to arrange an extension to the deadline and the parents still failed to return the forms and payment.
Another parent arranged for their child and a friend to go to the activity day.
The ACC having given you longer to return the forms, had to go firm with their planning and did so.

I can see two issues:
The parent arranged direct with the ACC for their child to go.
Due to parents returning the payment late the rest missed out on the event.

On issue 1, you could ask how they arranged it them self. You might find they were fed up of waiting or because they had heard nothing through they had arranged direct.

On the second issue. I would suggest that you adopt a hard line approach, in future set a dead line. Any payments not in by that date, then that is tough luck. Explain it is a district/county dead line and you'e hands are tied. That way those that have returned the forms still get to go.

You can learn from this or you can be bitter the choice is yours.

recneps
25-04-2014, 07:11 PM
On the second issue. I would suggest that you adopt a hard line approach, in future set a dead line. Any payments not in by that date, then that is tough luck. Explain it is a district/county dead line and you'e hands are tied. That way those that have returned the forms still get to go.

You can learn from this or you can be bitter the choice is yours.

I have to say, this would be my key learning point from this.

I have learnt to be strict with deadlines. We only allow flexibility if a) there are mitigating circumstances and b) it is possible.

We certainly wouldnt allow a situatoin where those who have signed up / paid on time lose out because we are waiting for those who haven't.

Likewise we always depart on time for trips regardless of latecomers. THis is down to a belief that those who turn up on time shouldnt lose out on activity time due to those who couldn't be bothered.

We make this very clear to parents. When we give departure times it is always phrased as "We will be leaving from X at Y:00 Sharp. We will not wait for latecomers"

Taeniura
26-04-2014, 01:29 AM
I too would adopt a hard line approach and say that a deadline has to be observed most parents will realise that if they miss a deadline then their little darling won't go to the event. If you try and accommodate them by going to the organisers all the time asking for extensions then they will not bother with deadlines and will expect you to bend over backwards.

To quote Douglas Adams "I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."

Bushfella
26-04-2014, 08:18 AM
Parents undermining Leaders = potential for huge rows. I have, after two huge blow outs, developed a zero tolerance approach. You undermine my Leaders you get told not to.

Tony Ransley
26-04-2014, 08:30 AM
The last people in the world I would blame if I had missed a deadline would be the parents.

roger-uk
26-04-2014, 08:39 AM
The last people in the world I would blame if I had missed a deadline would be the parents.

Why? Surely you put the blame where the blame lies.

Tony Ransley
26-04-2014, 08:42 AM
The last people in the world I would blame if I had missed a deadline would be the parents

MollyBloom
26-04-2014, 10:13 AM
The concensus seems to be to move on, which I'm happy to do as I don't like causing unnecessary friction. The saying "act in haste, repent at your leisure" seems very apt in this case as I don't feel so wound up about it today and would probably be regretting firing off an angry email now!

I'm prepared to take responsibility and admit that it was a failure on my part that the cubs didn't get to go, but at the time I told myself that at least I'd failed trying to do a good thing. As far as I was concerned, the situation was finished until this week when the 2 cubs were parading round with their badges! I cannot understand why the ACC was adamant she wouldn't admit the 7 cubs, but as you suggested, maybe the Mum got lucky and there was a cancellation or maybe she just turned up. Either way, I'm not going to give her the satisfaction of asking why she was allowed to take them and I wasn't!!! Would it have been the courteous thing for the ACC to have told me that 2 of the cubs from my pack had gone? .... possibly, but we're all busy people and I'm going to let it go - any time soon I'm going to forget it and move on, :soon:

Also, I'm going to take your advice and learn from this, so in the future where there's a small group involved, I'll get the treasurer to issue a cheque and then recoup the money afterwards and where there's a deadline, I'll make it clear that it has to be adhered to.

Thanks for all your replies - I knew you'd be the voice of reason.

roger-uk
26-04-2014, 10:20 AM
Sorry I seem to be out of step here but if my ACC [Cubs] refused me 7 palces and then afterwards alowed aparent to take 2 cubs I would be furious and expect an explaination as to why those places were not offered to me.

I presume she knew that parent had been DBS cleared?

ACC's are there to support the leaders and this is not supporting - tin hat now goes on :)

merryweather
26-04-2014, 10:56 AM
Sorry I seem to be out of step here but if my ACC [Cubs] refused me 7 places and then afterwards allowed a parent to take 2 cubs I would be furious and expect an explanation as to why those places were not offered to me.


you're in-step with me!

i wouldn't be furious but i would be quite annoyed.

okay so maybe the parent got lucky and heard from a friend of a friend in another pack of spare places on the day because of last-minute cancellations, i would still expect at least a courtesy call from the ACC to tell me of the last-minute change.


I presume she knew that parent had been DBS cleared?

yes, what were the supervision arrangements? i don't presume the ACC was taking these on directly for the two cubs in question? did they have all the necessary and relevant information for the day?

young people who go on activities outside of their normal section activities, e.g. with another pack, or to an event as individuals, should at least pay the courtesy of informing their section leader, wherever possible, and/or obtain their permission to do so.

the section leader needs to ensure that as far as is practically possible fair and equal opportunities for engaging in activities are offered to all in the section.


ACC's are there to support the leaders and this is not supporting - tin hat now goes on :)

i agree.

no need for a tin hat!

regards, TM

Bushfella
26-04-2014, 12:36 PM
i wouldn't be furious but i would be quite annoyed.

TM


Is quite annoyed equirable with quite irritated, or is annoyance a level above irritance... please do remind me, I'm never too sure...

BigBadBaloo
26-04-2014, 12:50 PM
Is quite annoyed equirable with quite irritated, or is annoyance a level above irritance... please do remind me, I'm never too sure...

Glad to see you back, Ewan. I was beginning to think you had found a cure for the escouts addiction! :bigsmiley

RisingStar
26-04-2014, 04:00 PM
Sorry I seem to be out of step here but if my ACC [Cubs] refused me 7 palces and then afterwards alowed aparent to take 2 cubs I would be furious and expect an explaination as to why those places were not offered to me.

I presume she knew that parent had been DBS cleared?

ACC's are there to support the leaders and this is not supporting - tin hat now goes on :)

7 is more than 2......

Brian Foulkes
26-04-2014, 04:03 PM
I have been watching this thread with some interest. I was there. I was not on the orgainising committee but ran a Pinewood Derby activity for one of East Devons contribution of two activities.
There seems to be a lot of supposition taking place,we don't know either the ACC Cubs or the parent of the childs side of the story.
Before taking any action it is wise to gather ALL the facts.
This activity day was I believe a suggestion tabled at one of the regular meetings for ADC Cubs and ACC Cubs for Devon.
The suggestion was that DISTRICTS would lay on one or two activities and DISTRICTS would in turn co-ordinate the attendance of Cub Packs within their District.
All the communication I had from ACC Cubs was addressed only to ADC Cubs or interested parties,like me,not to individual Cub Packs.As far as I am aware it was the responsibility of the Districts to organise attendance.
East Devon put on two activities at the request of ACC Cubs.We currently do not have either an ADC Cubs or DC so as far as I was aware there would be no representatives from East Devon as there was no one volunteering to organise a DISTRICT visit to the event.
I believe that Devon has around 150 Cub Packs and it is not realistic to expect the ACC Cubs to co-ordinate that number of Packs.
On the day there were over 500 Cubs there and our activity was on the go for the whole day ,completing 120 cars.
There will be future events in Devon organised by the County Team ,there is Run to the Sun 2015 coming up which will be organised by District Champions rather than ADC's so my advice to the OP is to sort her communication issues out now.This event is for all sections except Network so will be even harder to co-ordinate.
The ACC Cubs is a very approachable person and would I am sure rather be given the opportunity to sort out any issues and ensure maximum attendance at the events County organise. Maybe we can learn some lessons here,sweeping it under the carpet will not give us that option.
As Churchill said"To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war"

Brian

Bushfella
26-04-2014, 04:06 PM
Glad to see you back, Ewan. I was beginning to think you had found a cure for the escouts addiction! :bigsmiley

Aw, nice... I was actually doing my day job and presenting at a conference in Brussels... All networking, presenting, exchange of knowhow and all that stuff ... All mega important stuff that no-one outside the trade gives a toss about until they are drowning in waste rubber or choking on emissions from cement kilns...

roger-uk
26-04-2014, 04:52 PM
7 is more than 2......

Wow you can count :)

sjl14
27-04-2014, 10:18 AM
Wow you can count :)

Maybe a lucky guess! :D

fitch
27-04-2014, 08:16 PM
school playground, friday afternoon, parent bumps into another parent who has kids at another group.
"are Jimmy and Fred going to this big thing this weekend?"
"No we couldn't get a space, we were too late to book"
"Oh, my daughters cub leader just sent a text this afternoon to all the parents asking if anyone wanted to come along instead of Jo and George, as they have (insert contagious disease), the spaces have been paid for and there are no refunds so it is a shame to waste them - why don't I give you their phone number?"

bernwood
29-04-2014, 05:56 PM
All of this could be avoided by paying up front in the first place, Ive had 24 places for a district event in September, deposit paid for since Feb. can increase it if needed or decrease it too. Can forget it for next 3 months, simples