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bandmaster
05-03-2004, 07:35 AM
http://www.lincolnband.net/

The Awards Team said I should ditch the Java menu and get an html or php one instead. Can anyone tell me where I can find nice scripts already prepared for this? Free if poss.

Jason
05-03-2004, 04:55 PM
Wheres the java menu on your site? I can't find it?

Graham
05-03-2004, 05:00 PM
The java menu is the menu on the left which hides when you move yur mouse away from it.

BTW - If java is disabled you won't be able to see it.

jamieharrop14
05-03-2004, 05:06 PM
One note... javascript is not the same as java. I believe the menu in question is javascript.

Jason
05-03-2004, 05:06 PM
Thats javascript not java. Personally i see no problem with it, it works in all browsers and is useful.

jamieharrop14
05-03-2004, 05:08 PM
It wont work in all browsers if the user, like many do these days, disable javascript. In fact, it wont work in all browsers at all as there are text based browsers such as Lynx. Anyway, off to scout hostel, speak to you all on sunday. ;)

Jason
05-03-2004, 05:13 PM
Ok, it works in most modern browsers with javascript turned on.

If they have javascript turned off, there is still a menu a static menu at the bottom for them to use.


The Awards Team said I should ditch the Java menu and get an html or php one instead. Can anyone tell me where I can find nice scripts already prepared for this? Free if poss.

By the way the question was worded, i think he is still looking for a script to do a menu. If you are going to use a script it is almost certainly going to use some javascript unless it is just a static menu like the one at the bottom of the page.

Craig
05-03-2004, 06:35 PM
Going along with this theme,

With mine came add more general scouting content, how exactly would i do this without linking directly to scoutbase (which is already done twice) or just copying large chunks of it? I originally thought the specification said not just large lumps taken from SBUK.

Any ideas? or am i missing the point?

Graham
05-03-2004, 06:41 PM
One good way, is to rewrite information not only for your individual troop or site, but also idiot proof, i.e. cubs and beavers would be able to understand it. Good topics are history of scouting, what scouting is, etc

Jason
05-03-2004, 06:43 PM
I agree with you too, comments were made that i had lots of links on my site going to scoutbase pages, and i had only about 5/6 pages of content of my own. I used links as i did not want to copy scoutbase text as it could be updated, etc. Therefore linking will always provide the most up to date information??

Graham
05-03-2004, 06:47 PM
That's true, but another downside is with links people go on your links and get distracted too anither site, i.e. forget about your site, your site your decisions though.

Jason
05-03-2004, 06:56 PM
True, i think it could be possible for me to make a small script to get the content from scoutbase site everytime the user request the page and put a link to the actual page at the bottom of the content which i have retrieved, which would keep the user on the site.

Im sure i read somewhere this was possible, i'll have to look into it.

bandmaster
05-03-2004, 07:14 PM
http://www.lincolnband.net/
Yes the menu is javascript.
Can I do anything like this with Php?
Bearing in mind that I have no experience with Php.
Is there someplace I can get pre-written scripts or code in Php?
Anyone have any ideas other than this?

Jason
05-03-2004, 07:16 PM
Without using javascript at all you are stuck with a static menu only like the one at the bottom of your site.

bandmaster
05-03-2004, 07:28 PM
I haven't had time to look at these yet, just off for a curry.
A friend at work suggested www.phplayersmenu.sourceforge.net and www.scriptsearch.com/details/6622.html

Are there menus that I could use there without javascript then?

Maybe a horizontal drop-down?

Jason
05-03-2004, 07:46 PM
http://www.scriptsearch.com/details/6622.html - i could not view the source of this as the download link and the authors site doesnt work

http://phplayersmenu.sourceforge.net/ - Layers-based menus require JavaScript and work at least on the following browsers:

* Mozilla 0.6+ (versions 0.9.1+ are suggested)
* Netscape 6.0+ and other browsers based on Mozilla, e.g. Epiphany and Galeon
* Konqueror 2.2+ and browsers based on it, e.g. Safari
* Opera 6.x and 7.x
* Internet Explorer 5, 5.5, 6.

So it uses javascript.

I see no problem with javascript, if a user does not have javascript enabled, you have provided a static non-javscript menu at the bottom of the page for them to use.

I think you should keep your existing menu (or find a better one if you like), but all "dynamic menus" will surely all use javascript, but i see this as no problem as like i said you have provided an alternative menu for them

Jason
05-03-2004, 07:48 PM
You could also use a flash based menu, but again, you come to the same argument what happens if the user does not have flash installed?

Graham
05-03-2004, 08:55 PM
You also have the simple option of doing a menu in html i.e. have &lt;a href="www.domain.com/page.ext..... and do <p> between each link.

Daniel
05-03-2004, 11:09 PM
i have just visited the site , i found it realy annoying as the menu moves up and down.

i think a static one will be better, and not anoying to the all important visitors


just my view


daniel

bandmaster
06-03-2004, 01:31 AM
Daniel

The javascript menu is meant to float. This is to save visitors having to scroll up'n'down to search where you hid the menu. I hope what you can see is just the title bar of the menu. I designed the site so that the title bar fits in the left margin - so as not to obscure text. Is that how it looks to you? :?

It should only open when you point to it, and close when you move your mouse pointer away. Is that how you see it?

bandmaster
06-03-2004, 01:36 AM
Graham,
Sorry mate you lost me there. :-( Can you say that again, but more slowly?
You do what? With a what inbetween?

Yup. I meant it when I said I'm a novice.

bandmaster
06-03-2004, 02:14 AM
Yes. I have just realized there is a page 2 to this thread. I was wondering where my last msg went. Now there's 2. Whoops. My excuse?....I'm old.

Graham
06-03-2004, 09:52 AM
You could just do a menu in HTML E.g.:

[code:1]
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page1.php&quot;>page1&lt;/a>&lt;p>
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page2.php&quot;>page2&lt;/a>&lt;/p>
&lt;p>
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page3.php&quot;>page3&lt;/a>&lt;/p>
&lt;p>
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page4.php&quot;>page4&lt;/a>&lt;/p>
&lt;p>
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page5.php&quot;>page5&lt;/a>&lt;/p>
&lt;p>
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page6.php&quot;>page6&lt;/a>&lt;/p>
&lt;p>
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page7.php&quot;>page7&lt;/a>&lt;/p>
&lt;p>
&lt;a href=&quot;http&#58;//www.domain.ext/page8.php&quot;>page8&lt;/a>&lt;/p>[/code:1]

Which would display:

page1
page2

page3

page4

page5

page6

page7

page8


(with links of course)

Hope this helps,

Graham

bandmaster
06-03-2004, 11:15 AM
Mmm. Ok I undestand Now, but that I do already have a menu at the foot of each page. What I really like about the javascript menu, is that you only ever create and - more importantly - edit, one menu. To get the menu to appear on different pages, you just copy 2 lines of script to that particular page.

Would it be possible to write a menu in html in a page/file of it's own, then insert some kind of script/link to make it appear on each page, in a similar way that the javascript one works? That way, when I make any changes, I only edit one menu - instead of a million pages.
If it can be done - how?

AND - how do windows drop down menus work then? Like the one at the top of IE (File, Edit, View, Favorites, Tools, Help). Would it be possible to create that kind of menu for a website without using javascript? How?

Graham
06-03-2004, 11:22 AM
Would it be possible to write a menu in html in a page/file of it's own, then insert some kind of script/link to make it appear on each page, in a similar way that the javascript one works? That way, when I make any changes, I only edit one menu - instead of a million pages.
If it can be done - how?

Yes - you can do that using SSI, or alternatively PHP includes.

Graham

Jason
06-03-2004, 11:44 AM
AND - how do windows drop down menus work then? Like the one at the top of IE (File, Edit, View, Favorites, Tools, Help). Would it be possible to create that kind of menu for a website without using javascript? How?

No, it will almost certainlyt use javascript, any menu that moves/exapands/does wateva will use javascript.

Jason
06-03-2004, 11:47 AM
I have no idea how to include a file using ssi, but using php you can just put:

[code:1]&lt;?php

include 'menu.php';

?>[/code:1]

However you will have to change the extension of each page to .php

It also depends if your host supports php or ssi?

Edit: I think you are on pathfinder. They support php, (and ssi?)?

Bloory
06-03-2004, 02:07 PM
Jason,

Pathfinder supports both php and SSI.

There is a tutorial here about using SSI and the php includes are covered fairly wrll here.

Daniel
06-03-2004, 05:46 PM
yeah, thats how i see it -

but its a bit bumby - that could just be my computer, it may look better if it moved slower and in smaller blocks, i.e.

from here

to here


and not from here





to here


, if you know what i mean?



daniel

Jason
06-03-2004, 05:51 PM
i believe there is a setting for the menu he uses which can slow it down...

bandmaster
07-03-2004, 06:33 PM
Jason - just experimenting - with a bit of help from Jon - but I am reliant on Frontpage 2000. I don't have time to learn enough to write purely in html. Will using php give me any problems?

Graham - You described a vertical menu in html. My existing html menu is in a table - http://www.lincolnband.net - it's the only way I could think of to make it horizontal. Do you have a better way?

I found some pre-written code for php tasks - here are the details in case anyone wants to use them - nice to have it all done for you - especially for novices, like me.

http://www.phpselect.com/ - 3 scripts, random links, random text, random image. You can get them from the graphic link half way down the home page. Just keep refreshing to change the link that displays until you collect all 3.

http://www.agner.org/software/ - 2 scripts, tree menu and intelligent 404.

Does anyone know of other sites who give away pre-done php that could be useful?

bandmaster
07-03-2004, 07:07 PM
It would be great if the Awards Team could give folk an idea of how/where to get help, or further info, or a buddy - when they make recommendations for changes to sites. I know this is extra work and extra time, but it would be really useful - Craig what do you think?

This is not a critiscism - because I have only ever found two other award programmes (out of a total of 74) that bother to make recommendations for improvements. I'm just saying it would be helpful. :-)

Craig
07-03-2004, 07:21 PM
What? am i mis reading that or am i supposed to comment on what you said? lost me there.

07-03-2004, 08:05 PM
Craig
In a previous posting you said, "With mine came add more general scouting content, how exactly would i do this without linking directly to scoutbase (which is already done twice) or just copying large chunks of it? I originally thought the specification said not just large lumps taken from SBUK. Any ideas? or am I missing the point?"

I just meant that I think it would be helpful to have more detail of HOW to implement the recommendations that the Awards Team make, right away, at the time the award is given. I was asking if you agree?

Martyn
07-03-2004, 08:41 PM
It's always a fine line between

An complete copy of the words on Scoutbase
and
a page full of Links

Things you should look for - Perhaps use the words on Scoutbase and put a 'Local Spin' on it - what your scouts do for activities, pictures of your scouts doing activities

Links to scout base should be relevant

eg - Badges - put a link to the requirements of the badge on Scoutbase but you might have a target badge that the Scouts are working on this month where you write your text

I agree sometimes it's very hard (Or easier to copy) - I got the same from the awards team - If you look at my site (The beavers/cubs/Scouts and Network is a copy of Scoutbase. My problem trying to get text and pictures from other sections gives you a flat head.

Martyn

Martyn
07-03-2004, 08:47 PM
Bandmaster

Another Solution to your floating menu could be
Shorter pages so you don't need to scroll as much

Or Keep your Javascript Menu but make use of the &lt;NOSCRIPT>&lt;/NOSCRIPT>

The HTML you put between these tags only appears when javascript is disabled

Martyn

bandmaster
07-03-2004, 09:47 PM
Martyn,
Before I introduced the javascript menu, all I had was the html menu in the table at the foot of each page. So the javascript one is really an extra. Visitors to the site will probably use the javascript one (if they have javascript enabled) rather than the original menu - because of it's immediate visibility.

As things are, I'm more or less resigned to changing the javascript menu for something else, I'm just taking my time about deciding what.

By the way - can you answer the point on possible difficulties using ms frontpage with php? Is it OK or unadvisable?

Martyn
07-03-2004, 10:54 PM
Front page - drives me up the wall
It changes things at random and likes doing things it's way

but I learn't a lot from front page

Here is what I did in the end

I used it as Referance - eg made the page in Frontpage then copied the HTML to notepad to edit it

I'd recomend you looking at html kit

http://www.chami.com/html-kit/

but still use frontpage as your referance

Martyn

bandmaster
07-03-2004, 11:44 PM
Thanks Graham, I'll have a look when I get a spare minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS - you can call me Allister or Al. Bandmaster is just my username.

Craig
08-03-2004, 07:15 AM
Al, yes i do agree there. And Martyn has a valid point, it's that thin blue line.

bandmaster
09-03-2004, 12:00 AM
I have taken the javascriot menu off my site and made a simple menu in Frontpage.

Jason
09-03-2004, 10:11 AM
In my opinion you have made it worse now. Using java slows the page down at least a couple of seconds while it loads. It really annoys me and is makes me not want to be on the site as much.

Again we come back to the same argument, what if the user doesn't have Java installed?

Why not just move the menu that was down at the bottom a bit further towards the top and just add some hover colours so it changes it when you put your mouse over it.

Edit: I'm using firefox.

bandmaster
09-03-2004, 12:49 PM
Jason,
I thought I had made the right decision to switche to an html menu. I have removed all the javascript, and you should only see one menu now. The new menu does use hover effects.

Can you expand a bit on why you think this is worse?

I would porefer to use something that visitors to the site find easy to use, so I do take your comments seriously. Thanks.

Jason
09-03-2004, 04:37 PM
Its not pure html. The menu contains about 16 java applets. Im using firefox and whenever i go to a page which contains java, firefox always stops for a few seconds on each page. Im not sure if this happens in other browsers but i hate it when pages contain unnessecary java.

Again we come to the same argument, what if the user does not have java installed?

Here is the code you are using for each menu item, it is a java applet.
[code:1] &lt;applet code=&quot;fphover.class&quot; codebase=&quot;http&#58;//www.lincolnband.net/&quot; width=&quot;95&quot; height=&quot;20&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;textcolor&quot; value=&quot;#FFFF99&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;effect&quot; value=&quot;glow&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;bgcolor&quot; value=&quot;#CC0000&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;font&quot; value=&quot;Helvetica&quot;>

&lt;param name=&quot;fontstyle&quot; value=&quot;bold&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;fontsize&quot; value=&quot;12&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;color&quot; value=&quot;#CC0000&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;hovercolor&quot; value=&quot;#FFCCCC&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;url&quot; valuetype=&quot;ref&quot; value=&quot;Search.htm&quot;>
&lt;param name=&quot;text&quot; value=&quot;Search&quot;>
&lt;/applet>[/code:1]

Why not just use a html table with html links in each cell, with a css rollover, then it will be viewable to nearly every user. As well as making the text link a different colour when you move your mouse over it, you could also change the cell background too when the user hovers over it. This doesnt use java, and i dont think javascript depending on how you do it.

09-03-2004, 04:47 PM
Jason.
Ok. Thanks for poiting that out to me.
This is what comes of inexperience and reliance on Frontpage.
I imagined that I was creating html through Frontpage, but it seems I have inadvertantly created java applets without knowing.

I'll have to look at it again, but may not have time now until the weekend.

bandmaster
09-03-2004, 04:54 PM
Sorry - forgot to login. that last post was me.

Martyn
09-03-2004, 10:25 PM
Suggestion

How about this floting layer Menu

http://www.echoecho.com/toolfloatinglayer.htm

It uses Plain javascript

It's the 'java applets' that are annoying

If you use javascript you need to think about people who have the scripting disabled

Martyn

bandmaster
11-03-2004, 03:49 PM
Martyn,
trying to lose the javascript, but the css menu is very nice. Cheers.