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View Full Version : Poll: Programme Changes



Richard
07-12-2007, 01:16 AM
Are you happy with the programme changes that have been made?

(This is a public vote!!!)

shiftypete
07-12-2007, 01:16 AM
Someone forgot the poll :) :tong:

Richard
07-12-2007, 01:18 AM
Thats step 2, now done ;)

Kastor
07-12-2007, 10:20 AM
I had to go for disappointed on various counts.

I like having more Challenge Badges as three wasn't really enough. However they have now taken the challenge out of them. They are now just turn up and get badges.

The Chief Scout Bronze has lost its value - its become a BOGOFF badge, get the 6 Challenges and we'll give you one for free.

Scouting seems to be continuing to dumb down the Programme. All the changes seem to be making it easier, there is no real challenge any more. A lot of the stuff in these new Challenge badges could be done by 4 Year olds, it will be just plain boring for 6, 7 and 8 Year olds, who are the ones I have in the Colony.

Yes I'm disappointed, another missed opportunity to make Scouting something better. Oh well I suppose I'll have to wait another 5 years and see if the next review can get it right.

Biscit
07-12-2007, 10:49 AM
How about "Yes I know, but I havn't had chance to check them out as yet".

big chris
07-12-2007, 11:07 AM
it will not affect me one jot.

Biscit
07-12-2007, 11:17 AM
Or indeed "Ambivalent" :D

weefatbob
07-12-2007, 12:58 PM
I had to go for disappointed on various counts.

I like having more Challenge Badges as three wasn't really enough. However they have now taken the challenge out of them. They are now just turn up and get badges.

The Chief Scout Bronze has lost its value - its become a BOGOFF badge, get the 6 Challenges and we'll give you one for free.

Scouting seems to be continuing to dumb down the Programme. All the changes seem to be making it easier, there is no real challenge any more. A lot of the stuff in these new Challenge badges could be done by 4 Year olds, it will be just plain boring for 6, 7 and 8 Year olds, who are the ones I have in the Colony.

Yes I'm disappointed, another missed opportunity to make Scouting something better. Oh well I suppose I'll have to wait another 5 years and see if the next review can get it right.

Is it just me, or do we not actually know what the changes are going to be yet? We know the names have changed, but we don't know what the actual requirements are. And wasn't the Chief Scouts Award always 'BOGOF'? The same as the old Chief Scouts Award, you did the challenges, you got the badge - what else can you do to get it?

shiftypete
07-12-2007, 01:05 PM
Requirements for at least Beavers and Cubs have been posted on Escouts and I think they are all actually on Scoutbase now

Kastor
07-12-2007, 01:07 PM
Is it just me, or do we not actually know what the changes are going to be yet? We know the names have changed, but we don't know what the actual requirements are. And wasn't the Chief Scouts Award always 'BOGOF'? The same as the old Chief Scouts Award, you did the challenges, you got the badge - what else can you do to get it?I'm afraid it is just you. The requirements (for Beavers) are listed in this thread http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6117. The "old" CSB was not a BOGOF as the Beavers actually had to do something for it - the Personal Challenge. This stopped quite a few of them getting it because they were too lazy to bother. Hence it rewarded those who tried. The "new" CSB will just be given out to those that attended, which is a lot different from actually having to try. All my Beavers will end up with the "new" CSB, hence it has no value.

Viking
07-12-2007, 01:48 PM
I'm afraid it is just you. The requirements (for Beavers) are listed in this thread http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6117. The "old" CSB was not a BOGOF as the Beavers actually had to do something for it - the Personal Challenge. This stopped quite a few of them getting it because they were too lazy to bother. Hence it rewarded those who tried. The "new" CSB will just be given out to those that attended, which is a lot different from actually having to try. All my Beavers will end up with the "new" CSB, hence it has no value.

Why not add a personal challenge requirement for your colony? There is no rule saying that you can't, especially if you think that it will enhance the Scouting that you provide.

Kastor
07-12-2007, 02:21 PM
Why not add a personal challenge requirement for your colony? There is no rule saying that you can't, especially if you think that it will enhance the Scouting that you provide.Nice idea, but that means I'm not following the Balanced Programme. I may not agree with parts of the Programme but I will at least attempt to follow it.

Viking
07-12-2007, 02:58 PM
Badges and their requirements aren't the balanced programme, having a programme which covers all of the programme zones is. Badges merely compliment a balanced programme. Setting Beavers a personal challenge would be part of a balanced programme and would compliment it. The balanced programme isn't about earning every badge there is, it's about having fun whilst scouts learn more about themselves and the world around them. I think a personal challenge fits very well into this definition of a balanced programme.

shiftypete
07-12-2007, 03:01 PM
It is not up to Section Leaders to make up extra requirements for badges. All badge requirements are set by HQ and should not be altered. Why should it be harder for some people in one Group to earn a particular badge than for people in any other Group?

Viking
07-12-2007, 03:06 PM
I personally quite like the programme changes. I like how the zones fit more snuggly with other sections and badges. I am not too sure about the new joining in/participation badges - but then again I never awarded the previous design.

I like that there are more resources available - such as the badge requirement book, something which if you search this forum is something which a lot of leaders wanted and were buying from other sources or making their own. Other resources have come down in price, again a good thing. However I am not sure that the book format is the best, I like the old file system. They are easier to photocopy if necessary - and if changes are made to the programme in the future (there is bound to be) replacement sheets could be issued, without the need to buy a new book - which I thought was the original purpose of having the resources in loose sheet format.

I like the pack that has been designed for new cubs, including posters and stickers - that should keep them engaged after they have let the hut on a Monday night. I also like the new wall charts, something which has been missing since the programme change.

So overall a :thup: from me.

Viking
07-12-2007, 03:21 PM
It is not up to Section Leaders to make up extra requirements for badges. All badge requirements are set by HQ and should not be altered. Why should it be harder for some people in one Group to earn a particular badge than for people in any other Group?

If you are that concerned about not being able to make up new requirements (something which has always been there in the past - leader discretion!) and still want to have a personal challenge, then just do it! Make up your own award, something which you are entirely able to make up your own requirements for. Design a certificate and make a big song and dance about it. Award it at an AGM.

Or, when a scout is about to leave their section when the CSA is normally completed, ask them to challenge themselves to do something and show the rest of the section when completed. Then award the CSA. It doesn't make that much of a difference!

I remember when the new programme came in hearing a CSL moan that there wasn't an Astronmers badge anymore so they couldn't do the star gazing, night walks, model making etc that her cubs loved doing. I pointed out that there was an astronomy part in the scientist badge, she said yes, but only a small section and not nearly as extensive as the requirements for the old badge. I tried to explain that just because there wasn't a badge for it, it didn't mean that she couldn't still do the night walks, star gazing, model making etc - it was still part of a balanced programme. I think the same applies for the personal challenge.

If you think that the badge requirements have been 'dumbed down' - that does not mean you have to 'dumb down' your programme.

shiftypete
07-12-2007, 03:25 PM
If you think that the badge requirements have been 'dumbed down' - that does not mean you have to 'dumb down' your programme.
Totally agree with this, so long as you programme is balanced and above all fun and the kids get the badges they have earned then you can do whatever activities you like.

big chris
07-12-2007, 03:38 PM
It is not up to Section Leaders to make up extra requirements for badges. All badge requirements are set by HQ and should not be altered. Why should it be harder for some people in one Group to earn a particular badge than for people in any other Group?

because we all do things differently.

i do not look at the requirements from one month to the next, I just run a program that amuses me, challenges them and keeps them coming back week after week. Occasionally I look back and tick off where they met a requirement and dish out a load of badges.

I have never done this chief scout award thingy with any of them. Perhaps they miss out because of that... but they do some cracking good stuff with me so it's not much of a loss...

MikeJ
07-12-2007, 08:37 PM
I haven't voted, as being in cubs for a short while and not knowing enough about the current badge system, I am not sure of the effect the change will have.

wolfie
07-12-2007, 09:18 PM
. Hence it rewarded those who tried. The "new" CSB will just be given out to those that attended, which is a lot different from actually having to try. All my Beavers will end up with the "new" CSB, hence it has no value.


I guess maybe we do already have in hand rewarding those who try, as in each Section we usually have at least one thing for each challenge badge the youngsters have to do at home and we do the same for some activity badges. That way we always have, and will, reward those who put the effort in.

Having said that we do have a few youngsters who are keen but the parents don't seem to be - but it's amazing what "pester power" from a keen Beaver, Cub or Scout can achieve.:) If we did have concerns that maybe the child was getting upset, parents weren't helping etc then we'd try and tackle it.

We're considering using the Promise Challange (at least in Cubs) as maybe something to finish off with the older Cubs / Sixers / Seconders (a couple of the things would work well for that)- so that those who want to earn their Chief Scout do actually still have to put some effort in, rather than perhaps just showing up.

Yellow Beaver
08-12-2007, 10:28 PM
We're considering using the Promise Challange (at least in Cubs) as maybe something to finish off with the older Cubs / Sixers / Seconders (a couple of the things would work well for that)- so that those who want to earn their Chief Scout do actually still have to put some effort in, rather than perhaps just showing up.


That was my inital reaction to the new Cub challenge badges as well.

tomahawk
09-12-2007, 08:20 AM
i am a bit ambivalent TBH - I like the fact that we have more challenges, but I do find them dumbed down a bit. However, I have struggled to get somekids their challenges in the current format, because if they miss one or two meets..... with only 4 items, and them being so vague, I can see every one getting their badge, which for the average 8year old is excellent news!

Bodinator
11-12-2007, 01:21 AM
I had to go for disappointed on various counts.

I like having more Challenge Badges as three wasn't really enough. However they have now taken the challenge out of them. They are now just turn up and get badges.

The Chief Scout Bronze has lost its value - its become a BOGOFF badge, get the 6 Challenges and we'll give you one for free.



Personally I think the new Promise Challenge gives lots of room for 'personal' challenges to be set under it's requirements :)

Shaun
11-12-2007, 01:26 PM
I've taken the opportunity to challenge my YL's as part of their Mission 1.

To identify a challenge badge and then to run 3 pack nights so that they can be awarded the badge.

This should give him the opportunity to learn and then plan the meetings etc.

When I next see the other two YL's they get the same Mission:bigsmiley

Alfbranch
14-12-2007, 10:36 PM
I am disapointed in th loss of the personal challenge from the Chief Scout Gold award.

Alf