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Thread: Boys only Groups - are we the only one?

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    Boys only Groups - are we the only one?

    Are there any groups out there that have chosen still not to take girls? We are a boys-only Group, and are wondering if we are the only Group outside of our District that doesn’t take girls?

    As a Group, we have chosen not to take girls and have the support of our Executive Committee - all the leaders within our Group voted to remain a boys-only Group, and our Executive Committee have supported us on our decision.

    There are 3 other Groups within our District that do take girls and 1 other Group that does not, and we have a thriving and very active Guides unit that meet at the same hall, so there could be no accusation that as a Scouting movement within our district there is no opportunity for girls to join the Scout movement.

    As a Group, we have never discriminated against any race or disability or ‘minority’ – we have had deaf children (who incidentally were turned away from 2 other Groups before joining us), autistic children, a child with severe disabilities whose limited movements meant he stayed in a wheelchair and the only movement that he could do was to raise his hands, Muslim/Asian/African children, the list goes on – all these children have gone on camps and sleepovers without discrimination, on hikes, swimming and visited attractions with the other Scouters. In other words no disability or race or background or any other ‘minority’ has been discriminated against and refused to join our Group.

    As leaders, we are all volunteers, and we give up our time to help give kids the opportunities to experience different activities and opportunities that they may not get outside of Scouts. As volunteers, we feel we have a choice as to how we give up our free time to support and develop children, and our leaders are not interested in becoming a mixed group.

    Ultimately, if our Group is forced into taking girls by our County, all the leaders have made it perfectly clear that they would leave Scouting and our Group would fold – the Group has been going for over 75 years and within the current leaders there is in excess of 70 years of Scouting experience between the leaders. Is the Scouting movement prepared to force the closure of a Group when there are other Groups in our district that offer places for girls?

    I don't want to open up the general debate of ‘should girls be aloud in Scouts’ (that has been discussed before and is not the point of this thread), I want to know specifically whether there are any Groups that do not take girls and whether they have the support of their DC or County. We suspect we may be about to face a fight with our County and it would be helpful if anyone has already fought their County and won.

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ensign View Post
    I don't want to open up the general debate of ‘should girls be aloud in Scouts’
    seen and not heard?

    (a spelling joke)

    but on a more serious note... i would rather you were not in scouting... i dread sharing a campsite with you and how you will treat my girls

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    Sorry - should have been 'allowed'!

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    Senior Member Doug in Canada's Avatar
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    In Canada there is no fight, it is national policy and all groups must allow girls to join if they wish to. In my pack at the moment there are no girls but that is only because none have chosen to join.

    Is it not national policy in the UK? If it is then I can't see how you can not follow it. Groups in a national organization can not pick and choose which bits of policy they wish to follow!

    Ultimately, if our Group is forced into taking girls by our County, all the leaders have made it perfectly clear that they would leave Scouting and our Group would fold – the Group has been going for over 75 years and within the current leaders there is in excess of 70 years of Scouting experience between the leaders. Is the Scouting movement prepared to force the closure of a Group when there are other Groups in our district that offer places for girls?
    I would say yes, if you can not follow the policies of the organization then the group should withdraw from the organization.
    Last edited by Doug in Canada; 16-07-2009 at 12:12 PM.
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    why don't you want to take girls- you say you are not interested in becoming a mixed group but why is that?
    If all the girls in scouting left how many groups would close.
    What i am saying is what percentage of the scouting leadership across the whole 6-25 age range are girls

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    GSL NAWBUS's Avatar
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    Sorry but PO&R rule 3.6 states -
    f. All Scout Groups, Explorer Scout Units and Scout Networks are required to be open to male and female membership except in special situations. Single sex Sections may exist within a Scout Group provided that membership is available for both sexes across all Sections within that Group.
    g. Special situations are defined as being where:
    there are cultural or religious requirements for single sex working;
    Scouting is offered in a single sex institution (e.g. school, young offenders institute) through a closed Scout Group);
    a specialist single sex provision is required to meet a clearly identified educational need (e.g. Scouting for young mothers).
    The decision whether Groups may become an exception to the policy is made by the District Commissioner in consultation with the County Commissioner.
    There is no choice for a standard Group I'm afraid.
    As far as my Group was concerned, we did not take girls in any sections until 2007 as we want to upset the Guides who are associated with the Church that sponsors us.
    However, since then we've taken girls in all sections and we have not seen any problems at all. In fact a couple of our girl Scouts who went into Explorers have now become effective Young Leaders.
    Last edited by NAWBUS; 16-07-2009 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Forgot summat
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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in Canada View Post
    Is it not national policy in the UK? If it is then I can't see how you can not follow it. Groups in a national organization can not pick and choose which bits of policy they wish to follow!
    yes it is and no they can't.

    girls have not affected my scouting in the slightest... some girls stayed in guides where (locally) they do lots of homemaking, craft and drama... others took one look at the fires, axes, waterfights, kayaks, camps etc etc and left guides on the spot...

    apart from changfing the tents for summer camp so i still have patrols and they can be mixed... i cannot see the problem...

    so... you can start your own boys' club and do some scouty activties but if you want to be in our club... you need to follow our rules...

    this fight has been fought and we are mixed.

    ----------------
    The Following Was Added to the post within 60 minutes of posting the above
    ---------------

    Quote Originally Posted by NAWBUS View Post
    Sorry but PO&R rule 3.6 states -


    There is no choice for a standard Group I'm afraid.
    one group i know offers a girl troop and boy troop
    Last edited by big chris; 16-07-2009 at 12:15 PM. Reason: Merged Double Post

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    You shouldn't Exist as a Scout Group. Its not right.

    Are you an SA Group, I was under the impression that all SA groups had to have provisions for girls in their groups.

    What do you have against mixed scouting, what is their to fear?

    I don't care if you have 100 boys. To refuse girls scouting in your group is not morally right.

    I hope county do pick a fight and you are forced to take girls. I know you have said you will leave scouting if this happens. Maybe that is for the best. YP will be integrated with both sexes at some point. I really fail to see peoples problem with Females in scouting.

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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Every group should allow girls in. Whether that is a separate colony/pack/troop or (preferably) mixed.

    Have you ever done Scouting with girls? If not, how can you possibly know whether it works or not? I believe that Scouting has been improved by girls being allowed in. We treat them no differently to the boys, and they fight right in.

    And, like Chris, I would rather you were not in Scouting if you cannot accept the rules and let girls into your group.
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    well said big chris
    Girls enhance scouting and if you choose to be a leader you cannot pick and choose which parts of POR you want to follow (as tempting as it sometimes is)
    Heaven help the person who tries telling my daughter she cannot be a scout!! Girls and boys need to learn to work together.

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    Senior Member Jeebie's Avatar
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    We allow girls to our Beaver pack but haven't had any join for ages. We've found the ones that have, have been quite 'tom boyish' and haven't wanted to do the girly stuff at brownies/rainbows. The 'girly-girls' which have joined us have left within the month, joined rainbows and have stayed there. We've even had sisters which one stayed and loved it and is now a cub but her younger sister left us to join rainbows and is loving that. She's still the only girl at cubs after a year. There's 2 at scouts but, again, they aren't into girly stuff.

    Not that any of this answers your question but guess i'm trying to say that in our experience you'll only get a certain type of girl join anyway so shouldn't change the dynamics.

    Good luck with your possible fight.


    Christine Harvey
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    Account Closed weefatbob's Avatar
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    We also have no girls in the Group and do not have any plans to recruit any.

    We are, however, a group with a huge waiting list - brothers of current members go onto that list as soon as they are Beaver age, meaning that in reality there is very little chance girls will ever join.

    We certainly have not discussed breaking TSA rules, but if it came to that - we would have to look closely, as all the Scouters in our Group are of one mind - Scouting should not be coeducational, and certainly should not be forced to be so.

    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ensign View Post
    I don't want to open up the general debate of ‘should girls be aloud in Scouts’
    You are trying to open up a debate.

    This is the most pointless post i've ever seen.

    I don't want to say that i hope your group folds because i would feel very sorry for the boys that would miss out because of your strange views.

    Some of our girls are such tom boys that they muck in more than the lads do.

    FYI - we are 50% girls and 25% female leader.

    I also find it hilarious that you spelt 'allowed' as 'aloud' - you must obvioulsy be a huge girl band fan!!
    Last edited by MikeJ; 16-07-2009 at 06:24 PM. Reason: fixed quote
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    aka "Old Battle Axe" tomahawk's Avatar
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    you let in all these other type of people, different ethnicity/religion/able and disabled children....but not girls. No discimination there then.

    I think that kind of dinosaur thinking is appauling. Maybe you should all leave because what are you teaching those young men about society? That its OK to treat half the population differently because they dont have a certain set of anatomical features? Arent we all about preparing young people for life?

    I think mixed scouting is good for all - boys learn to appreciate girls as not aliens from another planet, but mates. They learn social skills that will stand them in good stead. Boys learn to be considerate of females without treating them as precious princesses or as bubble brained bimbos in the making. They may even *gasp* talk about their feelings

    Girls learn to interact with boys in a way that doesnt involve (too much) giggling and makeup. They get to try adventurous activities that challenge them physically and enhance their confidence and self esteem.

    I think you should open a second troop/pack/colony that is/are co-ed. Then you can justify having all boy sections.
    Tomahawk

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    Quote Originally Posted by weefatbob View Post
    Scouting should not be coeducational, and certainly should not be forced to be so.
    What would you do, if I turned up and asked for my daughter/sister/cousin to be added to your waiting list. Would they be turned away?

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