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Thread: Vetting "threatens Scout events", BBC story

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    Vetting "threatens Scout events", BBC story

    Just found this on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8301347.stm

    According to the BBC "[The Scout Association] has warned that major gatherings of packs from around the world may be cancelled due to the introduction of the scheme.
    Under the controversial rules anyone working or volunteering with children must register for background checks.
    But organising checks on thousands of foreign Scout leaders was "just not possible", a spokesman said."

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    Senior Member Spike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DuncanHill View Post
    Just found this on the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8301347.stm

    According to the BBC "[The Scout Association] has warned that major gatherings of packs from around the world may be cancelled due to the introduction of the scheme.
    Under the controversial rules anyone working or volunteering with children must register for background checks.
    But organising checks on thousands of foreign Scout leaders was "just not possible", a spokesman said."
    Be careful to read the whole article...

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC Web site
    A Department for Children, Schools and Families spokesman said: "We recognise the importance of children attending and participating in international events such as jamborees organised by the Scout Association, and would not wish the Vetting and Barring Scheme to act as a deterrent to these events going ahead.
    "While the fine detail is yet to be finalised, we are working in collaboration with the Scout Association and others to ensure that the practical operation of the scheme does not impede the operation of these events."
    It would seem that HM Government are on our side!

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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike View Post
    It would seem that HM Government are on our side!
    I wouldn't call that "on our side". If they were on our side, the government would not be implementing a system that assumes that we are all paedophiles unless proved otherwise.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    Senior Member Phil4071's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    I wouldn't call that "on our side". If they were on our side, the government would not be implementing a system that assumes that we are all paedophiles unless proved otherwise.
    Yes but we have to accept that there are nasty people out there. If we have to fill in a CRB form to keep them out then so be it. It might be a slight inconvenience for us but one that I think is well worth it.

    That said, vetting all foreign leaders that come to the UK would be unworkable. From the sounds of the article the Government are well aware of that and will change their plans before finalising them.
    Phil Banyard
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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil4071 View Post
    Yes but we have to accept that there are nasty people out there. If we have to fill in a CRB form to keep them out then so be it. It might be a slight inconvenience for us but one that I think is well worth it.

    That said, vetting all foreign leaders that come to the UK would be unworkable. From the sounds of the article the Government are well aware of that and will change their plans before finalising them.
    No-one is denying that. But the way they are doing it makes the assumption that no-one can be trusted until they have passed through this system. They are taking it to such excessive lengths too - parents aren't even supposed to give lifts to their kids friends without being approved!

    This sort of "inconvenience" is the sort of thing that will kill volunteering. It will stop people from giving a little bit of their time, it will create an unnecessary gap between someone saying they're willing to help out and them being allowed to.

    This system is a massive overreaction to the problems.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    No-one is denying that. But the way they are doing it makes the assumption that no-one can be trusted until they have passed through this system. They are taking it to such excessive lengths too - parents aren't even supposed to give lifts to their kids friends without being approved!
    Nonsense, arrangements between parents are a private matter and so not covered by the vetting and barring scheme. Only if an orgnisation such as Scouts gets involved in organising transport does it come under the scheme. So Scout Leaders or others asked by the Scout Group to help with transport to camp are covered and would need to be checked but if you just ask them to meet at the campsite and let parents arrange their own transport and they decide to share lifts then it is not covered as parents made that arrangement themselves we didn't make it for them.

    Also as far as I understand it the vetting and barring scheme will be much simpler and quicker than the full CRB check (I think full CRBs will still be needed for those that currently require one)

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    parents aren't even supposed to give lifts to their kids friends without being approved!
    Chris,

    Where does it say that?

    It is actually no change from the previous situation.

    If the SL organises parents to give lifts and allocates kids to cars, then the SL is saying that those parents are safe. It's a rather stupid thing to do when you don't know.

    Little Johnny's Dad may be a meek librarian , but put him behind the wheel of a car and he may become a demon. You don't know. So if the parents organise themselves, no issue, they make the choice. You organise it, and it's your fault that you put Jimmy in a car with little Johnny's demon driver dad.

    So, if you are involved in ORGANISED transport arrangements, then you need to have everyone checked if they are doing it more than once every six weeks.

    If the parents organise transport themselves, unofficially, then you have no problems.

    Of course should some issue arise during the fifteeth such unorganised transport arrangement with little Johnny's demon driver dad at the wheel. you may well find yourself in a civil court, if not a criminal court. Trust me, it is entirely possible.

    I discovered last week that where there is the slightest chink in your defence, the court, in the case with a child involved, will find against you.
    Ewan Scott

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    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Then I must have misunderstood.

    However, my objection to the ISA stands. I cannot see it as anything other than an unnecessary and disproportionate response. And that it assumes guilty until proven innocent just makes it even worse.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    Just to make things more complicate: assume you want to camp, say, at Kandersteg..
    The camp staff, as well as the other nation's groups leaders hadn't been vetted...
    Can you take your YPs there????
    Fighting Snake
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    Anyone remember those happy days of yore when a Scout Leaders job was talking to young people and taking them on activities. Who'd have agreed knowing that the majority of the job these days is form filling, form checking, permit seeking, and other clerical and penpushing activities.

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Sword View Post
    Who'd have agreed knowing that the majority of the job these days is form filling, form checking, permit seeking, and other clerical and penpushing activities.
    rubbish... absolute balderdash... if that is your leadering, you're doing it very very wrong!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GordyC View Post
    ...
    On the subject of the initial post - there's no way this is feasible. Some countries do not have disclosure processes in place so how are individuals from these countries checked? ...
    It's worse than not having processes. In Hong Kong, such disclosure to non-government bodies is illegal. This is actually useful - it's much better to have a clear position statement like that when you're working with another country, than to have to keep banging your head against a brick wall trying to navigate a system and beg for a letter to be written.

    (I was trying to get a Hong Kong colleague certified for Ethical Hacking!)

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