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Thread: Seven Years

  1. #1
    Scout Leader tim_n's Avatar
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    Seven Years

    Finally had enough of the politics in my group, so I've stepped aside whilst they sort things out.

    I've asked that we get a GSL that better co-ordinates the troop (rather than a scouter in charge) and a cub leader whom plays team with us. I didn't threaten to leave, I've just up sticks as they've currently got enough leaders to keep going. They've got a deadline to sort it out before the SL leaves and the other ASLs will not be far behind him.

    So I'm now a ASL [unattached] so going to help out in the wider district for a bit. Perhaps it'll rekindle my scouting interests.

  2. #2
    Diversity Ambassador Lynn-Cubs's Avatar
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    That is a real shame Tim, and you're not the only one by a long way. I hope a break and possibly a change is what you need to regain your trust.

    Is there more of a divide between some of leaders than there used to be? Have we got a range of leaders across the Assoc who have lost enthusiasm/energy or has Bear Grylls enthusiasm rubbed of on some leaders more than others?

    Or is this simply the way that Scout (and other) leaders sometimes developed?

    Is this situation increasing, or are we hearing about it more than before the internet?

  3. #3
    Scout Leader tim_n's Avatar
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    I think it's because everyone keeps in inhouse. The internet gives you the opportunity to chat outside your district which you wouldn't usually get to do.

    My problem with the situation is not unique, it is the reason several other SLs and a BL have left before. Fortunately they've not been disillusioned with scouting and have moved out elsewhere.

    I'm going to take the opportunity to go round a few groups if they want me and see how things are done elsewhere.

    I may still turn up for the megazone trip with my old section though...

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    Senior Member Ian Mallett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_n View Post
    Finally had enough of the politics in my troop, so I've stepped aside whilst they sort things out.

    I've asked that we get a GSL that better co-ordinates the troop (rather than a scouter in charge) and a cub leader whom plays team with us.
    Tim

    Do you mean Group rather than troop? I ask because like Lynn-Cubs it would be interesting to know if this is an issue within the leaders of the troop, or as I think I glean from your post. an issue between leaders of different sections not understanding that they need to work together?

    If its the latter, this is an issue I've been through in my group. Trying to explain to some leaders that we are not 3 completely separate sections, but a collective of 3 sections (4 if you have a closely linked Explorer Unit) that should be working co-operatively together for the greater good of the group, appears to be beyond some peoples understanding.

    People will always have different attitudes and perceptions, but it shouldn't be beyond their ability to talk them through and sort them out in a civil manner.
    Simba (my daughter wouldn't let me be Rafiki, and now she's a Network Scout & ABSL)
    ABSL
    Birstall Scout Group
    West Yorkshire

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Shame.

    The sad thing is that across Scouting there is this divide between sections and between groups and between Groups and District etc..

    In some ways it is almost inevitable. I don't really know the answer. I've always tried to get my sections to work together at least once a term, but it doesn't always happen. I try to have Group events and that does seem to pull people together. However, there will always be one who won't play ball, and communication on transfers between sections is never what it might be.

    Climbing the tree at District I can see further and what I see is interesting. Those that communicate, have regular team/ exec meetings, tend to do better than those that don't.

    Unfortunately the answer may lie in bringing people together more. My fellow DC has a theory, and it may have some merit. When a new body moves into a GSL role (or for that matter a DC Role) he or she should bring with them a management style, a personality. Some in the group may not like what they see and leave. That's nothing to worry too much about, as the result is a team that all want to sing from the same song sheet as the GSL, or DC, perhaps.

    It lines up with my theory that a Leader gathers about him like minded people and like minded Scouts.

    So maybe a new GSL is the answer, but don't expect that everyone will be happy with his ideas.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  6. #6
    Scout Leader tim_n's Avatar
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    updated it to read 'group'

    Ewan - similar but at least you're doing the proper job of trying to get the sections to play ball. Our problem is that it's both the beavers and the scouts badgering the 'link' to sort themselves out and they don't see the problem. It's a shame - we've got two cubs come up recently, but these are the first in a number of years and are a result of us popping down and showing our faces, running family camps etc. The GSL should really be organising that, not the leaders especially as our cub leader has so little time to run things properly.

    The most galling part is that we had many offers of help after the last family camp and not a single adult has been brought into the group.

  7. #7
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_n View Post
    The GSL should really be organising that, not the leaders especially as our cub leader has so little time to run things properly.
    disagree... maybe in your case, the GSL should be involved but movement between sections can (and probably should) be run between the section leaders.

    sorry your scouting has been cruddy. it's meant to be fun

  8. #8
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    Presently in a group that has had no GSL for over 15 years and has at times things have been overseen by a scouter in charge, and for a few years things were good with more than one leader doing a role. Now we have one, who frankly is not up to the job. There is division within the group, leaders have left in the past, one section is feeling alienated and some leaders have been known to make disparaging comments about leaders in another section.
    I agree with Bushfella in that the person in charge of the group should have a management style, the GSL role is more management than scouting and I for one dont think that you necessarily need to have a scouting background to be a GSL, that can be learned, but you do need to know how to work, coordinate and motivate adults, and unfortunately not all leaders have the ability to do this.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    The most galling part is that we had many offers of help after the last family camp and not a single adult has been brought into the group.
    Oh so familiar.

    Leaders complain about lack of support and help, yet parents are never taken up on their offers to help.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  10. #10
    ESL - Young Leaders
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_n View Post
    Finally had enough of the politics in my group, so I've stepped aside whilst they sort things out.

    I've asked that we get a GSL that better co-ordinates the troop (rather than a scouter in charge) and a cub leader whom plays team with us. I didn't threaten to leave, I've just up sticks as they've currently got enough leaders to keep going. They've got a deadline to sort it out before the SL leaves and the other ASLs will not be far behind him.

    So I'm now a ASL [unattached] so going to help out in the wider district for a bit. Perhaps it'll rekindle my scouting interests.
    Sorry to hear that it has come to this but probably a good idea to have a break from the group.

    It goes without saying but I'll say it anyway, we would welcome you with open arms. You are very welcome any time to visit ad hoc. Will PM you with our programme to see what you fancy.

    PS we are at megazone tomorrow night!
    Ruth

    Lovin' my gadgets!

  11. #11
    Scout Leader tim_n's Avatar
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    Hmmmmmmmm

    Megazone you say?

    I'm a bit of an ace shot. Last time round I beat the troop hands down... PM me the time and I might pop by for a game ;-)

  12. #12
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    We had the SL acting as GSL for over 10 years. While there were problems they were not political just basically with the role not being done as well as it could be because he had to split his time. We now have a new SL with the old SL taking on the GSL role full time

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  13. #13
    Senior Member DonTregartha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by an hour a week! View Post
    I agree with Bushfella in that the person in charge of the group should have a management style, ....but you do need to know how to work, coordinate and motivate adults, and unfortunately not all leaders have the ability to do this.
    Agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by an hour a week! View Post
    the GSL role is more management than scouting and I for one dont think that you necessarily need to have a scouting background to be a GSL, that can be learned,
    Disagree
    A good GSL should be a good scouter.
    He/She should be able to chip in a couple of good ideas or a different approach when the leaders are flagging/losing interest/struggling.
    A good leader, leads from the front.
    Showing the team by example.

    BTW - I struggle sometimes, and my team will tell you some days I ain't great, but I know where my responsibilities are.
    Last edited by DonTregartha; 08-02-2010 at 10:58 PM. Reason: reality check


    Don Tregartha
    Old Scouter
    1st Wing Scouts

  14. #14
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    Ideally a a good GSL would be a good Scouter, but in some respects their management skills would be used more than their scouting ones. But which is better; a GSL that can efficiently lead a team but lacking in some scouting skills, or one who has the scouting skills but their man management is poor and heads up a group of fractured sections that have no coordination or impetus.
    In my experience a section leader does not make a good GSL, they either do bits of the job well and other bits not at all or are fairly inadequate in all areas. That is not to say that those section leaders who are doing a GSL are not up to it, but from my experience and being in a district with about half the groups not having a GSL and being run by a section leader including my own, in which they are doing bits of the job and trying to palm off bits of it to others, with a My Way or No Way attitude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonTregartha View Post
    Disagree
    A good GSL should be a good scouter.
    The implications here are that you can't manage something that you don't know how to do yourself. I wouldn't agree with this.

    A good manager will be able to manage a team doing anything, even if they lack the specialist knowledge to do it themselves. If advice on programmes, etc. is required then the GSL may need to find someone else to do that if they can't do it themselves.

    But I think the management aspect of the role is the most important and probably the one that has a biggest impact if it is missing.

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