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Thread: 'Younger Leaders vs Older Leaders'

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    Last edited by ClosedAccount; 17-10-2011 at 09:17 PM.

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    SM(s) (B-PSA) RedCoat's Avatar
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    Welcome to the reality of pretty much every volunteer organisation.
    Richard Cullen
    Fakenham Lancaster Baden-Powell Air Scouts

    Per Exploranda ad Astra!

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    Senior Member DonTregartha's Avatar
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    ooh er Joe....

    As an oldie myself, I must say I haven't had the benefit of a trained media bod like yourself to work with.

    I think you are always going to run in to the old school leaders who will continue to get the coverage you mention.

    I will declare I have debated the rights and wrongs of the 'campaigning' thread that was great fun here on escouts, but at the end of the day its about you guys, the younger scouts.

    Maybe you should get in front of these guys and talk to them. Show them that you're basically singing out of the same hymn book. Scouting has tradition and I think its great that a lot of the stuff that I enjoyed 40 years ago is still done today, and that the YP actually still enjoy it.

    I think what worries the olds is that the young have a 'street culture and dumb down' agenda. I know that is not the case. Like I know that GCSE and A levels aren't easy as the Daily Mail would have us all believe.

    What you are experiencing is the brick wall that all of us come up against in our volunteer lives as well as at work. I work in Media/design and my god its a tough old game out there.

    How many times have I 'got the answer' to it all to have it turned down flat by clients and wish i could reply with John Cleese's response in the Monty Python architects sketch "Well, of course, this is just the sort of blinkered philistine pig-ignorance I've come to expect from you non-creative garbage" http://www.skepticfiles.org/en001/architec.htm

    My advice is don't give up - carry on.

    You WILL get there.


    Oh - and that reminds me of when I was a (what would now be called a YL) and my skip and the exec did all they could to try and derail a drama thing that we ran in the summer holidays with the older scouts and other YP linked with the church we met in. It was basically a to put together a musical (let's do the show right here) during the holidays. We workshopped it, put a band together, rehearsed and sold about 400 tickets over two nights , all with YP and no-one else.
    Last edited by DonTregartha; 09-03-2010 at 08:29 PM.


    Don Tregartha
    Old Scouter
    1st Wing Scouts

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    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    As a fellow MDM I would say age makes little difference when dealing with most anyway - I'm a lot older than you but I still don't always fair any "better" than you. What you are encoutering in scouting is no diffferent to many similar organisations or indeed most places of work!

    With the MDM role I have found it's often "fear" of the unknown that means some Groups don't do any (and am gradually supporting / encouraging them to do so), lack of real understanding as to the benefits (have had a brief slot at one District event and will seek to do more to explain), not realising how much we can support them (posters to banners and display boards to flyers) or the feeling that their way has always been fine (so working with them to see how we can turn fine into even finer!).

    I'm disappointed that you feel like you do, although I totally understand, but would like to encourage you to consider giving it another go if you feel you can - after all BP was always saying "A Scout smiles and whistles under all circumstances. " He'd encourage you to look at the "obstacle" and work out how to overcome it rather than turning away.

    I must admit one of the reasons for earning my woodbadge as a leader was I got fed up with certain people saying I was "only" a Chairman / MDM so couldn't possibly do X or understand Y - despite the fact I have been actively involved in certainly Cubs and Scouts for the past 8 years or so. I can now happily point out I have earned my woodbadge and in many cases have more recent experience than them!

    I've found that skills worthy of a place in the diplomatic core are very helpful ()
    Last edited by wolfie; 09-03-2010 at 08:41 PM. Reason: typos again :-(
    Louise

    GSL 1st Fenstanton & Hilton Scout Group www.scubes.co.uk


    TA - Cromwell District (Cambridgeshire)

    Media Manager - Cubjam2016

    We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future.
    -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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    Senior Member dmoorcroft's Avatar
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    Dont give up! The whole media development scheme is still relatively new and we all know some people fear change!

    I'm a SL and I'm only 18 - most of the other leaders had a shock when I walked into my first district scoutleaders meeting! I know for a fact there was talk about me being 'too young' for the role however it made me even more determined to be the best leader i could and make a valuable difference in young people's lives. Unfortunately there is always going to be a minority who think that the more years you clock up, the better scouter you are (and im certainly not saying that this isnt true in some cases)

    In my experience this 'looking down on young people' is beginning to change with the introduction of new POR on young people sitting on executive committees, NYRs, young leaders etc but its going to take a while to change!

    Just promise yourself that when you're 60 and still in scouting that you wont make the same mistake as them and hold the same prejudices!
    Dave Moorcroft

    SL - 1st Englefield Green Scout Group, Surrey
    Chair - Scout Delegation to the British Youth Council

    Scouting, Studenthood and Stage Management - visit my blog

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    Map Geek marcush's Avatar
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    what is the actual job of a media development manager?

    Rule 66. A map and compass offers no protection against getting horribly lost.

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    Senior Member wolfie's Avatar
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    Louise

    GSL 1st Fenstanton & Hilton Scout Group www.scubes.co.uk


    TA - Cromwell District (Cambridgeshire)

    Media Manager - Cubjam2016

    We cannot always build the future for our youth, but we can build our youth for the future.
    -- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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    I have to agree with Dmoorcraft i took over the Scout Troop when i was about 20 and soon after took on the acting role of ADC Scouts (the DC was active in our gorup and asked me to help).

    The first district meeting was held after a hiatus with no meetings for all leaders and we then split into the sections. I also had the whats he doing here as a Scout Leader, when i started to talk about what county was doing and how i would like to get some district stuff going too, a few jaws would have dropped even lower if they could!

    In the end if you think you can make a difference (in my case we were at no events so the only way i could go was up) then keep on with it even if only some of them understand the help you provide it will make a difference.

    Richard

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    DSNC Craftshill gregharewood's Avatar
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    If there's one thing Scouting needs more of, it's people prepared to provide continuous service when they graduate from Explorers.

    Yes, there is a younger perspective. But it's more than that. At that point, you retain a connection. Continuous service makes it much easier to get and hang on to adventurous qualifications. You're a part of a continuous thread of troop culture, if you managed to stick with the group you grew up with. And you're more likely to be able to hang on to and work with a whole team of people who went through the system with you.

    Any older leader who is not actively trying to create and hang on to a few proteges so they can kick back and just get invited to summer camps a decade down the line is running their troop unsustainably.


    Well done for the MDM stuff. It's more valuable than 90% of Scouters understand. And well done for being prepared to take the job so early in your Scoutering career!

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hunter View Post
    Despite this, Leaders don’t use or ask for my support – but produce coverage behind my back, which doesn’t show Scouting as a modern, co-educational and exciting organisation.
    they might suggest that you do not know the message they are trying to get across, that they are volunteers with limited time to consult with you, have built up friendships with newsdesks over years and if they want to get a message into the papers about their group then that is their prerogative. Scouting is delivered in groups and corporate messages about i.scout are all very well but it is very hard to convince people that they should have their press releases vetted to give a corporate image when they get naff all in return for their compliance...

    i know we are supposed to run our media contact via the county media bod but if i want to get something done, i will most likely ignore that instruction, and just get it done... life is too short...


    (just back from cruddy local voluntary services meeting... feeling grumpy!)

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    IanJames ianjames's Avatar
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    Young vs old, I am sure its not that simple. At what point does someone become 'old' and set in their ways. I am possibly older than the rest of the Cub leaders in district but I am not too old to learn new tricks, someone can be set in their ways by the age of 30 which too me is a young leader.

    We have a media man in district, as far as I know he has never been at an event or meeting I've been at, there is no media coverage other than what groups do themselves so why would I go to him for help or advice. This may well not be true in your case but you may well have to prove that you can get the coverage they want in an acceptable style. Just because you have done the training on the media and the brand doesn't mean they have to use you regardless, you need to show that maybe your way works.

    If you believe what you are doing is right then prove it to them, lots of good coverage can convert people, don't wait for them to come to you but get out and cover things for your district.
    Ian Turner
    Cub Leader, TA & ADC Cubs
    2nd & 7th Welwyn Garden City Scout Group


    http://www.wgcscouts.co.uk

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    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Hunter View Post
    Today, after many thoughts, I have decided that I no longer wish to hold the role as ‘District Media Development Manager’ (DMDM).

    As DMDM, it felt like a constant ‘battle’ with certain Leaders within my District. I understand that older Members have being part of Scouting for much longer than I have, however I have undergone the correct training on the media and the ‘Scout Brand’. Despite this, Leaders don’t use or ask for my support – but produce coverage behind my back, which doesn’t show Scouting as a modern, co-educational and exciting organisation.

    The impression was, “I’ve been in Scouting for 50 years, so this is how it’s done”.

    I know of a number of cases, outside of my District and County, where Young Leaders are not used as they should. I will admit, this is a very small few!

    I was just wondering whether anyone else had experienced this? Are you as a Young Leader, or a Younger Adult Leader, over looked by older Members who feel they way is the only and correct way?

    Rant Over
    There is always going to be a certain amount of younger Leaders being "overlooked" - and it's not always a bad thing. Just because younger leaders think they know what they're doing doesn't mean they do.

    Let's remember why are do this: for the YP. Leaders who have been doing it for a long time are often set in their ways. And can often resent being told to change.

    The mistakes often lie on both sides - younger leaders can be overbearing and overconfident and older leaders can be stuck in their ways. If you're saying "this is the way it must be", they are going to rebel or object. It's about working together.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
    Web designer of free Scouting templates, Scouting Themes 4 WordPress.

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    I'd say you will almost inevitably find people do have at least an unconcious problem with taking advice from someone much younger than them, as most older people have plenty of experience and tend to think (with some reason) that they might know better than a younger Leader. You need to demonstate to them that getting advice from you improves the coverage they get (or even actually gets them some coverage or improves the leaflets they are producing etc) which will soon have people asking for your advice regardless of your age.

    I was about 21 when I became a Leader but I refused to be treated any differently to other Leaders. I gave equal input at Leaders meetings, organised things and delivered what I promised and soon earned the respect of any Leaders I didn't already have the respect of.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member DonTregartha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianjames View Post
    Young vs old, I am sure its not that simple.
    More "my way" vs "your way"


    Don Tregartha
    Old Scouter
    1st Wing Scouts

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    Senior Member dmoorcroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    There is always going to be a certain amount of younger Leaders being "overlooked"
    Sorry Rousseau but I dont agree. Young people should NEVER be overlooked in our organisation event if their points may not be valid. Complete dismissal of a young leaders points and ideas doesnt get anybody anywhere and ultimately will lose us volunteers!
    Dave Moorcroft

    SL - 1st Englefield Green Scout Group, Surrey
    Chair - Scout Delegation to the British Youth Council

    Scouting, Studenthood and Stage Management - visit my blog

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