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Thread: Why stop talking about swimming?

  1. #1
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Why stop talking about swimming?

    Bloory wrote:

    Can we calm the debate about swimming down. It wasn't Wayne's personal decision - he's explained several times that it was on advice from NGB etc. If I can be sure of one thing, Wayne will have made sure all of the feedback, be it in questions to him or the other lengthy discussions on here, is passed back to the relevant officers at Gilwell.

    Why? He IS chief commissioner, and it is great that we have access to him.

    BUT it's clearly a subject that is an issue for alot of people, and that fact might get lost hidden amongst all the threads. Not just the actual rules, right or wrong, but the way they have been implemented.

    I've just been looking at one of the training modules (validation session tonight!), and it talks about motivation of adults. By imposing rules that are very hard to follow, with no notice or grace period, it demotivates. E.g. People who've already booked summer camps, with the express intention of going swimming in rivers or a quiet cove, are now spending time and effort arguing their case and complaining to HQ instead of organising that summer camp! They then have to spend more "2 hours a week" doing that organising of summer camp. They then might think "I'm spending too much time scouting", and stop. They might begrudge time spent complaining, as they feel they shouldn't have to.

    *sigh* It's only really partly to do with the actual change to swimming rules. A big chunk of the upset can be put down to poor (change) management. I can see us having the same arguement over mountain biking next year.

    It might not affect you personally Bloory, but it clearly affects alot of others, and surely it's right that they can have their say? And not the greatest welcome to the new chap?

    It's like bringing in a rule saying "all scout websites must have the corporate look, and you must attend a week long "branding" course that costs hundreds and is miles away, otherwise you can't have a scout website, effective now". You think "oh, well I was going to create a scout website next week, but now I won't bother".

    On the one hand, we have Bear saying "young people have the right to adventure" on the other, the rule makers are making that adventure blummin difficult.

    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019

  2. #2
    Escouts Team Bloory's Avatar
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    Don't stop discussing it, please - I just don't know how many times the same question needs to be asked and answered!
    Jonathan Bloor
    Escouts Team
    Group Scout Leader - 4th Ashby de la Zouch

  3. #3
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloory View Post

    Don't stop discussing it, please - I just don't know how many times the same question needs to be asked and answered!
    I would say until its sorted out. From what I have heard and seen it is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that I did not perceive was there.

    And of course when you refer to a NGB they are going to agree that their qiualification is the one to go for.

    There have been many examples showing how its impractical this and it does stop Leaders [Practical competetnt and sensible leaders] getting the most for their Scouts.

    We are trusted to take Children on camp why can we not be trusted to asses the swimming requirements.
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

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  4. #4
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    Just to clarify a few things:
    Nothing kneejerk about this particular decision Roger, there was very wide consultation.

    I'm very happy to take responsibility for the decision, to have the debate and to receive feedback but asking me the same question and not being happy when I refer to other replies is a little frustrating for me too.

    The swimming restrictions have been a challenge for some time (yes, I remember cursing them as a Sea Scout Leader along with the water activity rules) but nobody at HQ proposes them or the sub-committee of volunteers that considers and approves them does so with out very good consideration of the pros and cons.

    As I've said before we continually work with others to find solutions, alternative qualifications or with NGAs to have theirs modified for us. But we can also think differently ourselves to find other volunteers who will be happy to do this type of activity for us. There are many examples of this working in practice.

    Hope this helps,
    Wayne Bulpitt

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