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Thread: A horrible mess

  1. #1
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    A horrible mess

    Apparently Scoutbase is to be closed down and replaced with information on the main scouts.org website.
    So why are we going from a nice easy to browse and find what your after list thats currently on Scoutbase here:
    http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/library/hqdocs/facts/
    to this mess thats here
    http://www.scouts.org.uk/supportreso...re=sr&audience[]=all

  2. #2
    Escouts Team MikeJ's Avatar
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    It's something that's been planned to happen for ages as Scoutbase isn't maintained anymore as I understand it.

    You are probably better off trying the search facility on the homepage of scouts.org.uk as it gives neater search results http://www.scouts.org.uk/search?keyword=nights+away
    Mike Jury
    Escouts Team
    Ecamp 2009
    Radio Amateur (M0MFF)

  3. #3
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Angry

    The SA just seem determined to commit suicide with their IT.
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

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    I have to say that I nearly died laughing when I followed the link to the scouts.org.uk website. This is cleary unacceptable, so why on earth was it ever put live?

    Scoutbase is fantastic. It has an excellent user interface with a search facility that works, badge information that is easy to find and the old HTML version of POR was great. However I suspect that its hand crafted web pages meant that it was expensive to maintain.

    My reading of the URLs that we see on scouts.org.uk suggests that its based around a content management system that allows all departments to manage content. But the sacrifice has been the user interface on a onesize fits all (or none) system.

    I can understand the need for change in terms of maintainability, but this one is just rubbish - is it a commercial product? was it written by the SA? Was commercial support purchased? Whichever of these are true, the outcome is just not value for money, and not representative of the image that an organisation of our size should be delivering.

    I'm not challenging the branding and style as that is a matter of opinion, but the functionality and the quality of the content is not. Scoutbase with its myriad of hyperlinks between related documents, fact sheets and badges wins hands down.

    A.

  5. #5
    Escouts Management Daniel's Avatar
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    The Support and Resources section of scouts.org.uk isnt live in the fact you get redirect to scoutbase from the main site.
    The filter by section area seams to simply be a incorrect database query, all they need to do is remove all categories where results within the categories are = to 0.

    URLs can be made simpler using mod rewrite - should be something they look into...
    Example could be from /supportresources/search?srkeyword=Nights+away&where=sr&audience&cat egory=294 to /supportresources/search/nights_away/category/
    Daniel

    Explorer Scout Leader | Group Trustee
    4th Huddersfield Golcar Scout Group
    4thgolcar.org.uk
    District Media Development Manager
    Huddersfield South West
    hswscouts.org.uk



  6. #6
    ASL and YLUL wealdbrook's Avatar
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    Yeah, right!

    The problem is that leaders and parents want to find out things about Scouting. Either you let them do it with a means that works or you don't provide the facility. What we have is a dog's breakfast somewhere between which dissappoints parents and frustrates leaders!
    John Alexander,
    ASL and Assistant Webmaster
    1st Weald Brook
    http://www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk
    ESL(YL) Brentwood District

  7. #7
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    At the moment there is no single point of reference on either site.

    If you go to scoutbase.org.uk you get out of date information. If you go to scouts.org.uk you don't get links to information within an acceptable number of clicks.

    To indicate the problem - to get to the current Nights Away Notification form I have to:
    • Go to www.scouts.org.uk
    • Click "Support and Resources"
    • Click "Nights Away"
    • Click "more about Permits Scheme"
    • Click "Form NAN"
    • Click "Nights Away Notification (Form NAN)"


    And that's only if I know exactly which links to click. During that process I go from scouts.org.uk to scoutbase.org.uk and then back again.

    From a usability point of view suggesting that this is an acceptable route is a nonsensical argument. Suggesting that you should have to search is no better.

    The current setup is a joke with neither scouts.org.uk nor scoutbase.org.uk being definitive.

  8. #8
    Scout Leader tim_n's Avatar
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    If you're lucky enough to be able to access the website. Whenever I try to look something up, it's either broken or inaccessable. Why is it taken down in the evenings? Scout leaders don't tend to use it during the day, it's the evenings when you get home from work!

    I use scoutbase, who cares if the badge details are out of date, it's accessable and I only use them as a rough guide anyway. Pff.

  9. #9
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    Hi All

    This page is a left over from the development of the new Scouts.org.uk.

    As part of the upgrade of www.scouts.org.uk we are planning to go live with gradual releases of new features over the coming months. This starts next Monday 26 of July with a pilot of the new menu system in the Support and Resources area of the site, which you will be able to access via a link from the homepage. In the coming weeks you will see the menu system grow until all relevant content is covered. This will happen alongside other improvements to the site. Scoutbase will still be accessible in the usual way during the improvements.

    The whole support an resources area has change quite a bit from our original version, this was mainly due to feedback from you guys and other scouters. We will be asking for feed back on the beta site that should help us to give you guys an easier and better resource centre than we currently offer.

    Yours in Scouting
    Daniel Clark
    Web Team
    The Scout Association
    Daniel Clark
    TSA HQ Member and Scout Leader at 1st Bishops Stortford in Bishops Stortford District

  10. #10
    Scout Leader tim_n's Avatar
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    If you were listening to the thread above, you'd see we were happy with the system as it was because it was quick, had the information and a good search system.

    I use IE6, can't access the new site without a jumble of images. I have no choice in the matter because I don't control the systems at work.

    I don't think I've ever seen scoutbase down. It looks rubbish, but at least it works, yet scouts.org.uk is ALWAYS broken. Web 2.0 but rubbish.

    And for those who think I'm moaning at nothing, currently we have:

    Website update The members area of scouts.org.uk is currently down to allow for essential maintenance work. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. Scoutbase.org.uk remains unaffected by this problem.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Walsallwizard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manilla2007 View Post
    Hi All

    This page is a left over from the development of the new Scouts.org.uk.

    As part of the upgrade of www.scouts.org.uk we are planning to go live with gradual releases of new features over the coming months. This starts next Monday 26 of July with a pilot of the new menu system in the Support and Resources area of the site, which you will be able to access via a link from the homepage. In the coming weeks you will see the menu system grow until all relevant content is covered. This will happen alongside other improvements to the site. Scoutbase will still be accessible in the usual way during the improvements.

    The whole support an resources area has change quite a bit from our original version, this was mainly due to feedback from you guys and other scouters. We will be asking for feed back on the beta site that should help us to give you guys an easier and better resource centre than we currently offer.

    Yours in Scouting
    Daniel Clark
    Web Team
    The Scout Association
    Seems like the opinion on here is mainly that you are not giving us better than we already have available. Scoutbase was a fine site and then though it is not maintained is better than scoutsorg.

    Take down Scoutbase then there is no comparison, whilst there is the new site is never going to be accepted. btw navigation around Scoutbase is far easier.
    Richard Fenton
    CSL 1st Hartburn Sea Scouts (Graham Mellanby's Own)
    www.hartburnseascouts.org


  12. #12
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim_n View Post

    And for those who think I'm moaning at nothing, currently we have:

    Website update The members area of scouts.org.uk is currently down to allow for essential maintenance work. We apologise for any inconvenience caused. Scoutbase.org.uk remains unaffected by this problem.
    sorry kids... no badges this term... i put all your data online and the website is broken again... maybe next year?

  13. #13
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    Hi All

    I understand that the opinion on this forum is that Scoutbase is better than the current scouts.org.uk. Scoutbase has been around for a very long time and I as a Scout leader use it all the time so I know the limitations of our current system.

    We have a very small team working on this project so the progress has been slower than I would have liked, The beta system will launch on Monday and is far better than the current system. As i have said it is a beta and will require tweaking and I will be relying on you guys and other Scouters to help us get it working in a way that works for everyone.

    The new Support and Resources area works a lot like Scoutbase though the content has been rewritten so that it is more up to date and more relevant to the movement as a whole.

    There is a new side menu that will allow you to jump to information a lot quicker than you currently can on Scoutbase. We have also tweaked the content so that you don't have to have been a leader for 10 years and know all the jargon from Scouting.

    I am hoping you can suspend the condemning of the new system until you have given the new beta a go, and if the system isn’t right please give us you feed back so we can get it right. I think you guys will be pleased with the way the information is set out under the new system.

    I can only apologise about the current state of the membership services area, we are working very hard to fix the issue that keep causing the down time.

    Yours in Scouting
    Daniel Clark
    Daniel Clark
    TSA HQ Member and Scout Leader at 1st Bishops Stortford in Bishops Stortford District

  14. #14
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    Do what I do and sit download EVERY factsheet there is on scoutbase from that list - it takes a few hours but once you have them just keep an eye on the ones that get updated - hey presto easy searching on your mac/pc - Its great at leader meetings when Leaders start spouting rubbish rules or useless facts... search, find, show, embarrass... I can even supply anyone with a CD if you wish of all the current factsheets...

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    The Following Was Added to the post within 60 minutes of posting the above
    ---------------

    Quote Originally Posted by manilla2007 View Post
    Hi All

    I understand that the opinion on this forum is that Scoutbase is better than the current scouts.org.uk. Scoutbase has been around for a very long time and I as a Scout leader use it all the time so I know the limitations of our current system.

    We have a very small team working on this project so the progress has been slower than I would have liked, The beta system will launch on Monday and is far better than the current system. As i have said it is a beta and will require tweaking and I will be relying on you guys and other Scouters to help us get it working in a way that works for everyone.

    The new Support and Resources area works a lot like Scoutbase though the content has been rewritten so that it is more up to date and more relevant to the movement as a whole.

    There is a new side menu that will allow you to jump to information a lot quicker than you currently can on Scoutbase. We have also tweaked the content so that you don't have to have been a leader for 10 years and know all the jargon from Scouting.

    I am hoping you can suspend the condemning of the new system until you have given the new beta a go, and if the system isn’t right please give us you feed back so we can get it right. I think you guys will be pleased with the way the information is set out under the new system.

    I can only apologise about the current state of the membership services area, we are working very hard to fix the issue that keep causing the down time.

    Yours in Scouting
    Daniel Clark
    Can I suggest a search function that searches for the TITLE only of a factsheet, and not every word within it..
    Last edited by petewill222; 22-07-2010 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Merged Double Post

  15. #15
    Senior Member Doug in Canada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by petewill222 View Post
    Do what I do and sit download EVERY factsheet there is on scoutbase from that list - it takes a few hours but once you have them just keep an eye on the ones that get updated - hey presto easy searching on your mac/pc - Its great at leader meetings when Leaders start spouting rubbish rules or useless facts... search, find, show, embarrass... I can even supply anyone with a CD if you wish of all the current factsheets...

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    The Following Was Added to the post within 60 minutes of posting the above
    ---------------



    Can I suggest a search function that searches for the TITLE only of a factsheet, and not every word within it..
    Having worked in a regulatory industry, what you suggest is not a good idea! The CD will be out of date the minute it is created and then you will have incorrect information circulating about that people will assume is the current regs. It is much better to keep it online so that you always go to one place and that place always has the most current version.
    Akela - 6th Burlington Cub Pack

    www.6thburlingtoncubs.org

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