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Thread: Young Leaders returning to the same Group

  1. #1
    Asst Sea Scout Leader GuruChris's Avatar
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    Question Young Leaders returning to the same Group

    I was having a discussion with a Scouting friend the other day about Young Leaders returning to the same Group that they were a Scout in - he was adamant that it's not allowed.

    Now i'm 99% certain that this is wrong; I do recall a recommendation that YLs should have a 6 month break if they're returning to their old Troop (to return as leaders, not just big Scouts), but can't find the reference for it anywhere so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

    Thanks,
    Chris

  2. #2
    No mountain too high PeterSheppard's Avatar
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    You're correct, the statement is made in Young Leader Essentials.
    Assistant Area Commissioner (Activities) - Gwent

    "Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap... but by the seeds you plant"

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    SL - Sketty Scouts
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    Try this:

    http://www.scouts.org.uk/supportreso...troop?cat=9,98

    We always follow the '6 month' advise and seeing the 'old' scouts coming back to help out encourages our scouts to move onto explorers afterwards!

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    Asst Sea Scout Leader GuruChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeovil_walker View Post
    Try this:

    http://www.scouts.org.uk/supportreso...troop?cat=9,98

    We always follow the '6 month' advise and seeing the 'old' scouts coming back to help out encourages our scouts to move onto explorers afterwards!
    That's the one i was after. Cheers

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    Map Geek marcush's Avatar
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    I was a YL at my old scout group and there about 4 that currently are and another 3 that have been YLs and now leaders. So that is a total lie. Some have been with scout section, but the leaders have made it VERY clear that the are now YLs and not scouts.

    Rule 66. A map and compass offers no protection against getting horribly lost.

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    GSL/ESL(YL)/TA Mark W's Avatar
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    Ouch

    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    I was a YL at my old scout group and there about 4 that currently are and another 3 that have been YLs and now leaders. So that is a total lie.
    Ah ha, proof by positive assertion. I say it's so, so it must be....
    If it was easy, it wouldn't be so much fun...
    GSL 1st Aylburton & Lydney, TA, ESL(YL), District Campsite Warden & webmanager .....only 1 hour a week, they said (not pointing out that was what was left)

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    Member Busy Akela's Avatar
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    YL's returning to their old section AND their old Group within 6 months sometimes find it more difficult to make the leap from being 'one of the yps' to 'one of the leaders' A longer gap (minimum of 6 months) is recommended for this reason. I've found it can be down to the individual's character too, but I have seen it work, and sometimes, not work so well....
    Busy Akela

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    Senior Member
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    We mostly get YLs "from within", but do stick with the 6 month gap which seems to work for us.

    Can't see any reason for an issue with them being in another Section of the same Group without that gap, as the purpose of that gap is just to prevent them ending up in a "confused" Leadership position of being in charge of their friendship group.

    Neil

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    nele
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    There is certainly no rule about people returning to their own group. Obviously it could be good to experience another group but it isn't always possible because of geography.
    Mostly our YLs work with beavers or cubs, but thats also because explorers are on Fridays like the scout troop

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    ASL and YLUL wealdbrook's Avatar
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    Going from being the oldest Scout to being a YL working in the Scout section the next week is going to be difficult for the YL and the Scouts (not saying that it is not possible) - hence the advice not to start working as a YL in the Scout section you have just left for about 6 months. Another Group - yes, another section in your old group - yes, Scouts in your old group - think really, really carefully!
    John Alexander,
    ASL and Assistant Webmaster
    1st Weald Brook
    http://www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk
    ESL(YL) Brentwood District

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    Smile

    We have no option to take YL's from another group so ours help out at Beavers and Cubs, plus Explorers meet at the same time as the Scouts. I would love to have them help out in the Scouts though as we are really short of leaders but I think the 6 month break is a good idea. We did have a couple of explorers on summer camp and they were a great help and didn't have any problems.
    Calum Swanson
    Group Scout Leader
    2nd Orkney Scouts


  12. #12
    bit of everything!
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    The YL also have problems coming back into their old Troop. The PL who was the new recruit when the YL was the PL being my most awkward experience - the YL wanted to take over.
    The YL needs to know the difference of being part of the Leadership team rather than an older Scout.

  13. #13
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuruChris View Post
    I was having a discussion with a Scouting friend the other day about Young Leaders returning to the same Group that they were a Scout in - he was adamant that it's not allowed.
    incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuruChris View Post
    Now i'm 99% certain that this is wrong; I do recall a recommendation that YLs should have a 6 month break if they're returning to their old Troop (to return as leaders, not just big Scouts), but can't find the reference for it anywhere so hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

    Thanks,
    Chris
    the recommendation is 'at least 6 months'. but it's only a recommendation. you would not be breaking any rules if the yp came back to a yl role in the same troop one week after they left.

    there would also not be a problem if you (section leader) said they couldn't come back to the troop for two years.

    it is about yls being seen to be yls and not big scouts. it is about pls being able to fully experience their role without maybe the former pl taking over. it is about them having a little more maturity to enable them to take on the yl role. but it's also about not letting troops manipulate the rules so that they can effectively have 'scouts' up to 18.

    i wouldn't get hung up on this so-called 'six-month rule'. issues such as; do you have a yl role available that they can take up, or, does the troop need a yl, or, how do we work with a yl, or, are they mature enough to uphold the responsibilities of that yl role, or, are they the right/best person for the role, etc, are far more important.

    in the past i've always looked at the person and asked myself: can they do what is being asked of them? if yes then they get the yl role. if that means returning to their old troop within the 6 month recommendation, so be it.

    yls are not leaders. a leadership role is not automatically a leader role. always remember that.

    cordially yours, TM

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    Asst Sea Scout Leader GuruChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    the recommendation is 'at least 6 months'. but it's only a recommendation. you would not be breaking any rules if the yp came back to a yl role in the same troop one week after they left.

    there would also not be a problem if you (section leader) said they couldn't come back to the troop for two years.

    it is about yls being seen to be yls and not big scouts. it is about pls being able to fully experience their role without maybe the former pl taking over. it is about them having a little more maturity to enable them to take on the yl role. but it's also about not letting troops manipulate the rules so that they can effectively have 'scouts' up to 18.

    i wouldn't get hung up on this so-called 'six-month rule'. issues such as; do you have a yl role available that they can take up, or, does the troop need a yl, or, how do we work with a yl, or, are they mature enough to uphold the responsibilities of that yl role, or, are they the right/best person for the role, etc, are far more important.

    in the past i've always looked at the person and asked myself: can they do what is being asked of them? if yes then they get the yl role. if that means returning to their old troop within the 6 month recommendation, so be it.

    yls are not leaders. a leadership role is not automatically a leader role. always remember that.
    This is pretty much how we've been running it since day 1 of the YL scheme (and even before that through DofE/QSA service etc. for the Ventures) - just checking that nothing had changed without me noticing and i wasn't making a fool of myself telling my oppo he was wrong.

    I'm quite a fan of the 6 month recommendation (and it's one we follow) for all the various reasons given above, plus it encourages the YP to try Explorers. We've had a new District Unit set up at our HQ for almost a year now, which is apparently quite active, but the leaders never see anything of them, let alone the Scouts - which as a Sea Scout Group / Unit that's open almost every weekend and has some of the older Scouts - and younger leaders - almost living there over the summer is a bit of a surprise (and disappointment).

    Hopefully as the next batch of Scouts go up in a few weeks time they'll encourage the others to come down a bit more, and we can sell Explorers to the older Scouts that are ready to go up.

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