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Thread: Scout Section Support being improved?

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    Scout Section Support being improved?

    It is encouraging to hear about plans to improve the support for the Scout section in Waynes blog, in particular support for the Patrol and Patrol Leadership structure.

    http://www.scouts.org.uk/ccblog/114/...-pipeline-then

    To be honest im starting to get slightly concerned for the future of the Scout Section, i think its fine now but it does seem that the support for this section is not as forthcoming as other sections and I think if we dont keep things ticking over then im concerned things will get worse.

    There have been quite a few changes to the rules in the Scout section over the past couple of years but the support to go with that is perhaps not there.

    What support do you think is needed for this section?

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    What changes have there been to the Scout Section in the last couple of years?

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    What changes have there been to the Scout Section in the last couple of years?
    Mainly Age range changes and badges, go back further if you wish.

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    Senior Member martin1981's Avatar
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    the scout section is hardly unique in changing, scouting should be evolving all the time and it occasionally means that they have to tweak the way we do things.

    on the age range changes, the "new" programme arrangements were always transitional for Scouts > Explorers because otherwise there was a risk of young people getting lost in the implementation way back in 2002/2003. implementation (or at least the formal stage) ended on 31st December 2003, which is over 7 years ago!

    there were changes to badges to all sections in 2007/2008, it was always intended as of the new programme for a 5 year review and no changes in that period. thinking back over the 20 years I have been involved as a young people and adult, there has always been a "churn" of changes on badges. the type of changes have differed over time.
    Martin Whelan

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    I have to say, what support?

    17 years my wife and I have run Scouts and I can put my hand on my heart and say that we have been left to fend for ourselves.

    Badges are not support, they are resources. Support is help to learn new skills, help to deal with issues, help to find new Leaders.

    The only support that I have truly had was on UKRS or on here from fellow Scouters. Here people have answered questions and helped deal with issues that the local system simply could not deal with.
    Ewan Scott

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    Peter SL 18th Bolton Horw notgonehome's Avatar
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    improved?

    improved?
    What improvement!!!
    At the ADC ( Scouts) meetings lots of unhappy people about the changes in the Scout section.
    Same at the district meetings
    I get the feeling no one cares about the Scout section
    Or is it just in the Greater Manchester North area?

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    At the ADC ( Scouts) meetings lots of unhappy people about the changes in the Scout section.
    Same at the district meetings
    I get the feeling no one cares about the Scout section
    You may get the feeling.

    To those Scout Leaders still moaning about the changes. Firstly, where were you all when we were kicking up a row about it on UKRS (pre-Escouts I suspect). We were labelled troublemakers, several lost their warrants, a few more resigned. Some got correspondence warning them not to upset the applecart - it depended upon their County or their DC. But there simply were not enough people kicking off to make a difference.

    Secondly. The changes are here, they are with us, and we just have to be pragmatic and get on with it. As soon as the changes were announced my Group made the switch, a good 10 months ahead of County. We just got on with it. It works, not the traditional Patrol system, but we still have Scouts working together, taking on challenges, gaining awards and even, when the time is right taking a lead in running elements of the programme.

    I'll argue the hind legs off a donkey about policy and rules, but when I walk through the door of the Scout Hut we just get on with the job and we make it work. It is all we can do. So, maybe next time the SA run a biased survey with predefined results, and aim to impose changes then maybe, just maybe all these disgruntled Scout leaders will put their money where their mouth is and back those who stick their necks out by joining them in the debate. Way too late to cry now.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Peter SL 18th Bolton Horw notgonehome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    You may get the feeling.

    To those Scout Leaders still moaning about the changes. Firstly, where were you all when we were kicking up a row about it on UKRS (pre-Escouts I suspect). We were labelled troublemakers, several lost their warrants, a few more resigned. Some got correspondence warning them not to upset the applecart - it depended upon their County or their DC. But there simply were not enough people kicking off to make a difference.

    Secondly. The changes are here, they are with us, and we just have to be pragmatic and get on with it. As soon as the changes were announced my Group made the switch, a good 10 months ahead of County. We just got on with it. It works, not the traditional Patrol system, but we still have Scouts working together, taking on challenges, gaining awards and even, when the time is right taking a lead in running elements of the programme.

    I'll argue the hind legs off a donkey about policy and rules, but when I walk through the door of the Scout Hut we just get on with the job and we make it work. It is all we can do. So, maybe next time the SA run a biased survey with predefined results, and aim to impose changes then maybe, just maybe all these disgruntled Scout leaders will put their money where their mouth is and back those who stick their necks out by joining them in the debate. Way too late to cry now.
    I did all the above at the time of the changes with no effect.
    We still use the traditional Patrol system it is much harder now but so far still works.
    And like you at the end of the day the Scouts I work with is the only reason I am in scouting.
    One more thing I was in Malaysia last year and had the pleasure of visiting a camping competition it was great to see the traditional Patrol system working with PLs aged 16 and 17.
    And the pride the PLs took in what the patrol was doing was impressive.
    I was also told not to rock the boat
    Last edited by notgonehome; 17-01-2011 at 11:19 AM. Reason: adding ending

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    I did all the above at the time of the changes with no effect.
    Largely because so many people said nowt. Actually, on a statistical basis we were on a hiding to nothing anyway but at least we tried.

    I've got little time for those who whine in private but do nothing about it. If they don't get involved in the fight, they can't complain about the outcome. And even if they did get involved in the campaign, it is over and life moves on.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Senior Member Ian Mallett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by notgonehome View Post
    One more thing I was in Malaysia last year and had the pleasure of visiting a camping competition it was great to see the traditional Patrol system working with PLs aged 16 and 17.
    And the pride the PLs took in what the patrol was doing was impressive.
    That may be fine overseas, but I just cannot see it working here anymore. My 16 year old is more than happy to be a scout section YL, and has even attended some YL modules, but tell him he is still a scout, not on your nelly. At section meetings and activities, he mixes with the section leaders, not the scouts.
    Simba (my daughter wouldn't let me be Rafiki, and now she's a Network Scout & ABSL)
    ABSL
    Birstall Scout Group
    West Yorkshire

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    I think the age thing is doing a lot of harm to the scout section. In the troop that I get involved with the PL's are 13, with one 12 and three of those are weak, they would be ok APL's but in the role because they are most suitable compared with others. The APL's are 12 and 11. Later this year we will need to promote those APL's to PL's and looking at prospective APL's we are struggling. A lack of ability, aptitude and having the right approach means either having scouts in a position of responsibility that cannot do it or looking further down at younger scouts, some that might have only been in the troop a short time because they would do a better job than older ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mallett View Post
    That may be fine overseas, but I just cannot see it working here anymore.
    In most cases it wouldn't. We were losing YP aged around 14 like there was no tomorrow. Setting up Explorers has stemmed that loss.

    It *can* make the Scout Section a bit harder to run, yes. But it's workable, and we returned to growth.

    Neil

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    PLs may seem weak if you expect them to do what 14/15 year olds used to do. If you get them to do what 12/13 year olds can do then there is no reason they should be weak.

    Then get Young Leaders to do what 14/15/16/17 year olds can do and you have a winning formula.

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    We have had little support and when there has been support it has been things that we are quite capable of doing ourselves, its been quite demoralizing seeing what comes out of the Explorer Section for events and support but not for us, im not sure if the Cubs feel the same way?

    This year the County run a winter camp in October, we ran an Autumn Camp in November, yes we would do a Winter camp in winter but leaders have commitments

    However the County this year is running a PL training weekend which is encouraging.

    We have a large problem with Scouts dropping out at age 12 just at a time when they could be becoming a PL, I also feel that Scouts younger than this perhaps are not as keen to do the typical ourtdoors programme that we put on, I have had to put on a few more craft and creative style activities in recent years but I will not stop or water down the outdoors activites that we do.

    I think Scouts should defintatly be going on visits and camps outside of the county borders and taking part in national jamborees and camps and even going abroad, we do the former very well but we struggle to do the latter.

    We have always used the PL structure, we have not always been able to have an SPL in recent times though.

    We have always embraced the new changes but we do find a lot of things a struggle.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Fraser,

    The going abroad bit is a real challenge - IF you want to involve meeting with other Scouts from other countries.

    I have decided that when we do Internationals, if we can meet with other Scouts, then well and good, but if we can't, it doesn't really matter.

    My tip... If taking Scouts abroad, do things that you cannot/ would not do at home. Keep them busy, busy, busy - and plan, plan, plan and then plan some more.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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