View Poll Results: What is your yearly Subs?

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  • < £59.99

    20 7.19%
  • £60 - £69.99

    20 7.19%
  • £70 - £79.99

    58 20.86%
  • £80 - £89.99

    21 7.55%
  • £90 - £99.99

    55 19.78%
  • £100 - £109.99

    44 15.83%
  • £110 - £119.99

    19 6.83%
  • £120 - £129.99

    23 8.27%
  • £130 +

    18 6.47%
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Thread: Subs How Much do you charge ?

  1. #76
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    Our subs are the highest in the district, at £120 per year, We collect the subs via direct debit. the subs are the same for each section. We throw in free neckers, woggles and a free camp/sleepover.
    We fundraise for equipment and HQ running costs, so as a section leader I get 80% of the subs to spend on the sections each term. We have our own HQ and run 2 beaver colonies, 2 Cub Packs, 2 Scout Troops and a large waiting list.

  2. #77
    YL DanNixon's Avatar
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    At Explorers it is 25.00 per half term, but we only meet fortnightly, do you reckon that is is fair?


    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Daniel Nixon
    Maverick Explorer Scout

  3. #78
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    At explorers it is 10/month plus AMS. However, we have just moved and the hall we have moved to is much cheaper (and larger!). I don't know what they plan to do with subs, but I would think that AMS might be included in the future. But I'm 18 in a couple of weeks, so I'm not going to find out.

    At the group where I help out at cubs, we charge 16/term. I think this is the cheapest in the district. This includes AMS but not camps/activities. However, our treasurer is fantastic at applying for grants etc so we can normally subsidise activities and camps.
    Jamie
    ACSL - 16th Lancaster Scout Group

  4. #79
    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimjam View Post
    However, our treasurer is fantastic at applying for grants etc so we can normally subsidise activities and camps.
    Which is great until the funding isn't there or the person changes and suddenly the real cost comes in.

    We are looking at offering some subsidised events this year, but not sure how to achieve it without causing a problem down the road. Any ideas or suggestions gratefully received.

    Rich

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rothley Bill View Post
    Our subs are the highest in the district, at £120 per year, We collect the subs via direct debit. the subs are the same for each section. We throw in free neckers, woggles and a free camp/sleepover.
    We fundraise for equipment and HQ running costs, so as a section leader I get 80% of the subs to spend on the sections each term. We have our own HQ and run 2 beaver colonies, 2 Cub Packs, 2 Scout Troops and a large waiting list.
    We too charge 120 per year and all pay via s/o. We do this so we can max gift aid.We then pay for things like a trip to see the local gangshow, subisidise summer and group camps and challenge events. We have 3 Colonies, 2 packs , 2 Troops and our own Explorers.

  6. #81
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scallywag View Post
    We too charge 120 per year and all pay via s/o. We do this so we can max gift aid.
    it is irrelevant with regards to GA as to whether you pay in cash, by cheque, or through a SO.

    there is no 'max' on GA; it's 20%. if you have every parent signed up then you maximise your GA return. you don't need to have everyone pay by SO to maximise your GA return. it does help with record keeping and transactions are somewhat simpler.

    We then pay for things like a trip to see the local gangshow, subisidise summer and group camps and challenge events.
    whoa there scally!

    you cannot claim GA on payments made to the group, such as 'subscriptions', which have subsequently been used to provide a direct benefit to the donor (e.g. parent) or a connected person (e.g. son/daughter), if the value of the benefit exceeds the relevant/aggregate value test.

    on your subscriptions of 120 pa the relevant value test maximum is 25, i.e. your subscriptions can only provide a maximum of 25 direct benefit to each member each year. thus paying from subs for: an 8 gang show ticket one term, 10 subsidy for the district camp for a scout the next term, 10 off annual camp if a scout pays early the following term, and 5 subsidy for the entry for the xmas challenge, say, is in breach of the rules - given that all these come from subs payments and that you claimed GA on the full 120 in the year.

    paying for a ticket for the local gangshow is a benefit.

    paying a subsidy for camps is a benefit.

    paying for challenge events may be a benefit.

    if these total >25 then you would be in breach of the GA rules.

    the subscriptions my sections levy in my group are only for the benefit of the group and or its sections; they are of no direct benefit to the donor or their connected person(s).

    if we organise trips to the gang show we charge the ticket cost. we do not subsidise from group/section funds. we do subsidise from receiving a group discount on the ticket price. of course that benefit doesn't come from subs or from any money for which GA has been claimed.

    we charge all camp costs directly. again we offer no subsidy from group/section funds. camp funds are handled/accounted for separately to subscriptions and other costs. if a camp costs 1000 and there are 20 scouts on it then each is charged 50. if after the camp the accounts for it are reckoned and it's found that the camp cost only 900, then each scout is refunded 5. no GA is ever claimed on camping funds/levies.

    i'll say again: if you claim GA on subscriptions you must make absolutely sure you follow HMRC rules. if you're not sure about anything then you must ask - either HMRC Charities or your DT. if you're still not sure then the best action is not to claim.

    if you do provide 'subsidies' from your subscription funds then you must check that they meet the relevant value test rules.

    you do not have to claim GA on all your subscription amount and can make allowances for any subsidies, however, it's much easier to reduce your subs and levy for the subsidy part of activities if this were the case.

    do not ever make any GA claim on anything to do with member payments for camps. account for camp payments separate to subscription payments.

    We have 3 Colonies, 2 packs , 2 Troops and our own Explorers.
    totally irrelevant, but i know you like to keep telling us!

    look scally i only have 1 colony, 1 pack and 1 troop and last year posted just 30 on the census. yes i have the smallest group in the district. yes you may think of us as losers and would have 'ofscout' in to close us down asap. ihave far fewer leaders than you. but comparisons with you are irrelevant. so please don't go on about it how great you are. we get the message. we know the sun shines out of your ......

    now if you want to be the perfect group that you claim to be, go check that you're not breaking any GA rules!

    and you don't have your own (group) explorers! there may be an attached unit, but POR tells you that you don't have your own. (but i suppose you'll just say: sod what POR says; my advice is don't say it!)

    cordially yours, TM

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoutingdan View Post
    At Explorers it is 25.00 per half term, but we only meet fortnightly, do you reckon that is is fair?
    We charge 30 per term, weekly meetings, so on first look, yes I would say 25 per half term for fortnightly meetings is high. However, what do you get for that money? Do you get a lot of activities paid for or subsidised?
    Ruth

    Lovin' my gadgets!

  8. #83
    John Anderson JPA's Avatar
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    Our Scouts Charge 80 a year, this includes the membership subscription.
    Cubs charge 25 a term, this does not include the membership subscription.
    Beavers charge 1 a week, Beavers normally do a sponsered event to cover membership subscription.
    Group Scout Leader

    www.6theastkilbride.com

  9. #84
    Group Dogsbody Bagheera28's Avatar
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    Our Beavers subs for many years remained at 18.50 per term until the beginning of last year when we had a new BSL take over. First we put them up to 20 for a couple of terms before raising them again last term to 24. At our groups exec meeting last month it was announced that the group account doesn't have enough to pay our hall rent and bills so each section will need to start paying more money to the group and therefore subs must go up dramatically. Reluctantly we've put them up to 36 for this term as we now have less members as some will be swimming up to Cubs in a couple of weeks so we won't be taking subs off them. Even now we're still paying for things out of our own pocket as we just don't have the money to afford all the badges and resources we need to provide a balanced programme. We have tried several fundraisers over the past 12 months but we just aren't getting any support from parents.
    Yours in Scouting
    Daniel Bishop (Rat)
    Acting Beaver Scout Leader
    Assistant Scout Leader
    28th Portsmouth Scout Group
    City of Portsmouth Scout Active Support Unit Member
    Portsmouth Scout Archery Club Member

    http://28thportsmouthscoutgroup.co.uk

    http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/ca...outhscoutgroup



  10. #85
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    there are a gazillion things wrong with this

    Quote Originally Posted by Rat28 View Post
    Our Beavers subs for many years remained at 18.50 per term until the beginning of last year when we had a new BSL take over. First we put them up to 20 for a couple of terms before raising them again last term to 24. At our groups exec meeting last month it was announced that the group account doesn't have enough to pay our hall rent and bills so each section will need to start paying more money to the group and therefore subs must go up dramatically.
    groups shpuld budget...

    hall rent = x
    AMS = x
    section activity costs = x
    leader uniform and training = x
    other stuff

    divide that by number of kids in group and bingo... there is your annual subs (ideally with a margin for error)

    Reluctantly we've put them up to 36 for this term
    jolly good... you are right to think of the parents'pockets but that is still good value

    as we now have less members as some will be swimming up to Cubs in a couple of weeks so we won't be taking subs off them.
    the cubs will be taking the money... so the group still gets the money... right?

    Even now we're still paying for things out of our own pocket as we just don't have the money to afford all the badges and resources we need to provide a balanced programme.
    stop... right now...

    do the exec know this? do you have an exec?

    apart from anything else, if we had a section who paid for everthing from their own pocket and never told us, we'd not know to give them more money!

    We have tried several fundraisers over the past 12 months but we just aren't getting any support from parents.
    do you know that you are part of a group? do you have leaders' meertings? an executive? a gsl? a treasurer? anybody?

    if your group is skint, you need to stop doing some activities for a year* to recoup some money and you need to budget correctly.

    * or be a bit more creative in your accounting...factor in a badge cost to an activity...

    http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/loc...rise-1-2358658

    just saw that... you knew it was coming... the group should not be in this position...
    Last edited by big chris; 10-04-2012 at 05:07 PM.

  11. #86
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    this seems to have gone very quiet.
    looking though all this I thought we were expensive but as we own our HQ our costs are higher I guess.
    Until I started working the numbers and now I'm lost.
    Subs are 30 scouts 29 cubs and 27 Beavers.
    All money is kept in each section and a charge is paid to group per YP per year which does cover capitation scouts 52.50 cubs 51 beavers 45. looks great doesn't it?
    remove 32 capitation and group is left with 20.50 for scouts, 19 Cubs and 13 beavers this is per year folks with approx 230 YP that's only 3975 left to pay running costs of 11777. Ok we do get gift aid and I guess that group keep this completely. We do rent the hall but bookings are down and we have a big fund raiser once a year but the weather has been awful the last two years so again that's badly down.

    Suddenly the subs don't seem expensive at all

  12. #87
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    At a rough estimate on those figures you could be claiming gift aid of almost 5k a year which makes things seem a lot more reasonable especially if you make a bit of money from external bookings (even 20 a week would be 1k a year).

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
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    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  13. #88
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    ah give the man a pint.

    So income is about 8470 a year.

    Suddenly I see what our treasurer means about gift aid and what a god send gift aid is

    Thank you
    4th Uckfield (Holy Cross) Scout Group
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    Any views are my own and not the groups

  14. #89
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_Uckfield View Post
    this seems to have gone very quiet.
    looking though all this I thought we were expensive but as we own our HQ our costs are higher I guess.
    Until I started working the numbers and now I'm lost.
    Subs are 30 scouts 29 cubs and 27 Beavers.
    All money is kept in each section and a charge is paid to group per YP per year which does cover capitation scouts 52.50 cubs 51 beavers 45. looks great doesn't it?
    remove 32 capitation and group is left with 20.50 for scouts, 19 Cubs and 13 beavers this is per year folks with approx 230 YP that's only 3975 left to pay running costs of 11777. Ok we do get gift aid and I guess that group keep this completely. We do rent the hall but bookings are down and we have a big fund raiser once a year but the weather has been awful the last two years so again that's badly down.

    Suddenly the subs don't seem expensive at all

    do you not have your accounts? they are prob available at the charity commission website...
    nope... you are under the limit

    for example... we have the followin expenses for 11/12 (not including camps etc and money paid to sections to run their own things.

    Membership subscriptions paid on 5,244 (that is paid to distirct)
    Adult Support & training 120 (low, this year)
    Utilities 2,587 (ouch, i know... we do get about a grand back from a neighbour with whom we share a meter... long story)
    Professional fees 980 (lawyers for buying a garage and a surveyor)
    Insurance 2,630 (cheap)
    Bank and similar charges 425
    Repairs & Renewals M 1,959 (refurbing the hut)
    aterials & Equipment 729 (little bits and bobs around the hut)
    Group Administration Costs 1,023 (photocopying, printing, postage and all sorts)
    Mini bus costs 1,764 (still cheaper than hiring)
    Telephone & Website 571 (including internet at hut)
    Uniform & badges 482 (including a little bit of leader uniform)
    Burglar alarm 318
    Total 18,832

    we charge 48/term = 144/year x about 130 subs payers = 18,720

    so... even at 48/term (the most locally by quite a way) we are just standing still.

    any more needs fundraising!

    we were asked how much we charged at a district meeting and as we went around, everybody gasped when i gave our subs amount.

    our accounts are here if you want to see. 11/12 about to go up.
    Last edited by big chris; 02-11-2012 at 10:44 PM.

  15. #90
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    I do have the accounts for the last two years and I'm trying to get to grips with them. As I've just taken over I'm reviewing the whole piece so I can get a proper understanding of where we really are. I think the Exec. could spend several k on the HQ on top of the thousands spent in the last few years and I'd love to know if we can afford it.

    What do other groups do about reserves/contingency funds?

    My daughter tells me I write on these sites really badly so I it seems cold it's just the way the I write.
    Last edited by Mark_Uckfield; 02-11-2012 at 10:59 PM.
    4th Uckfield (Holy Cross) Scout Group
    GSL


    Any views are my own and not the groups

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