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Thread: Many, many questions...

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    Many, many questions...

    Hi everyone!

    It's been a couple of years since I last posted on EScouts, so please accept my apologies for non-attendance. My Bad.

    We're taking our scouts away on Summer Camp (Greenfield) at the end of July, and have the usual set of new and interesting challenges to plan around. Firstly, this is going to be the first time we can potentially have enough girl scouts with some experience to form a girls patrol.

    I'd like to do this for a number of reasons. The girls seem to get along extremely well together and have good team dynamics. It would make sleeping arrangements easier. It's something we have not done before, and I'm always keen to try out new concepts/methods. They have a good scouting knowledge, and have been greenfield camping before.

    However, the oldest girl scout we have is still a couple of years behind our most experienced PL. This would be a straightforward disadvantage, at no fault of their own. I'm also concerned that this could be viewed (and technically is) segregation due to gender, which can be seen as sexist. I also see it as important that scouts should be able to mix freely, regardless of gender, race or ability.

    I'm absolutely torn 50/50 as to which way to go. Half of me appreciates that the girls may feel more comfortable being in a patrol of their own, although I may be entirely wrong. I'm also aware of the conotations of sexism in making a patrol out of less experienced (although extremely able and knowledgable) scouts.

    The first people I will ask when making the decision will be the scouts themselves, as I feel their opinions will sway me the most. However, I'd like to do so from a more informed position. How do the rest of you deal with this for the first time, and do you have any advice?


    Secondly, a more practical question! We have previously stored food (dry goods, tins, bread, etc) on camp in a set of metal lockers laid on their side, which make excellent cupboards. However, after years of transport and knocking around in stores, they're in such a sorry state we may have to retire them. I'm thinking about purchasing a set of large plastic boxes with vented lids as a replacement. What do the people out there in EScouts world use to store dry goods on a week long greenfield camp?

    And the thrid question is in regard to sourcing equipment. We have the usual issue of not enough tent pegs, and need to look at purchasing more (9" and 12"). This seems to be an entirely hit and miss affair with some suppliers providing excellent quality pegs that last for years, and others providing pegs that are apprently made of balsa wood and cotton wool. The worst we had were apparently made from old pallette wood, and promptly split at the notch on the first hit of a mallet. Any recommended suppliers out there? Preferably the cheaper the better, but willing to pay out a bit to ensure good quality.

    Right, that's the end for now. I'm sure I'll be writing more questions on here as the challenges increase. Planning summer camp would be boring if it was easy!

    Oll

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    A far as segregation goes, have a girls' tent, due to POR, but chuck 'em in patrols with the rest of the Scouts. They sleep together, but everything else is done as a Patrol with the other Scouts.
    That gets rid of the 'inexperienced' PL/APL, doesn't set a precedent, and allows all the Scouts to carry on benefiting from experience =]
    Last edited by Chillax; 18-04-2011 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Addition

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    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chillax View Post
    A far as segregation goes, have a girls' tent, due to POR, but chuck 'em in patrols with the rest of the Scouts. They sleep together, but everything else is done as a Patrol with the other Scouts.
    That gets rid of the 'inexperienced' PL/APL, doesn't set a precedent, and allows all the Scouts to carry on benefiting from experience =]
    Which bit of POR is that??
    Roger Woods
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    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

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    Senior Member CilDroichid's Avatar
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    Separate sleepers but mixed patrols.

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    Senior Member stuartburchett's Avatar
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    Back when I was a scout we made wooden pegs of various sizes when we needed them, ensured constant supply, passed on valuable skills and was free.

    http://pubbles.org.uk
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    Senior Member Ashbourne_Akela's Avatar
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    I don't see a problem having a girls patrol, as long as they are ok with it. If they have good dynamics, are normally mixed in at Scouts, it's as good a reason to divide them up as any. It's no different to having a blonde patrol or going A,B,C etc to split them up. At best, they will have a great time and really bond. At worst, you'll know not to do it again with this group of girls. Also, as it's for a week, you could always mix it up half way through if it isn't working.
    GSL 1st Mayfield Scout Group
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    Ecamp 2008/2009

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    nele
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    We've done both separate girls patrol (when there were enough) or mixed in with the rest. Always separate for sleeping though.

    In the troop we have them mixed in, but the moment they get the chance they like to be together, even though there are currently 2 female Pl's. We do have one young man who chooses to be with the girls whenever possible.

    When working as one patrol the girls tend to win challenges etc

    Ask them what they want to do..

    If you are worried about them or any other younger patrol doing badly because of age you could look at penalty points based on average age for all the patrols, like they do in some competitions, where the average should be (say)12

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    DSNC Craftshill gregharewood's Avatar
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    Re: girls -

    No perfect answer so yeah, listen to what THEY want. If some of the girls are already in a strong working patrol week to week, they may want to stick with that. They may prefer some privacy within the regular icelandic - a sheet hung up or something as a divider is perfectly acceptable. OR.... the girls may not be that tightly integrated with boys anyway and maybe love to compete as a separate patrol. Never worry about the age of PLs. My best PL is 11. Next comes the 12 yr old, then a 13 yr old, and then the other 12s. And yes, I promoted the 11 yr old over the heads of a couple of 13 yr olds. Ideally this sort of thing works best as part of a long term policy where the Scouts have a clear idea of what they have to do to be chosen, and by whom. It shouldn't seem arbitrary.

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    Yes, I've got the T-shirt Sparkgap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faulkner View Post
    Hi everyone!
    Secondly, a more practical question! We have previously stored food (dry goods, tins, bread, etc) on camp in a set of metal lockers laid on their side, which make excellent cupboards. However, after years of transport and knocking around in stores, they're in such a sorry state we may have to retire them. I'm thinking about purchasing a set of large plastic boxes with vented lids as a replacement. What do the people out there in EScouts world use to store dry goods on a week long greenfield camp?
    Oll
    We use a whole load of those green stacking crates you get with the Tesco deliveries for tinned stuff. Also have the crates with the interlocking lids for packet or other stuff which might be at risk of attack by the local squirrel population depending on where we're camping.
    Andy
    SL 1st Wellington
    www.wellingtonscouts.org

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    Cool, thanks everyone for your comments. I think I'll be putting it to the girls to see what their preference is, but I'm more confident that having a girls patrol is acceptable. And as was mentioned above, could be an impressively succesful one!

    Oll

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    My suggestion would be towards having a girls tent for sleeping, and then mixed patrols for the rest of the camp, but see what the girls say. Obviously the girls tent still gets the same inspection as the rest of the patrol tents.

    If your girls have a tendancy to clump together, then having them all in one patrol will only exaggerate that tendancy. In a similar way to how generally you'd split up close friends so they're across different patrols. If you put them together without the boys for everything then you're creating a marked segregation.

    Equally, I'd go for the girls sharing one patrol tent and being mixed into the rest of the patrols rather than putting the girls in each patrol in a hike tent out the back of that patrols main tent.

    Having been a girl and tried the various options, girls patrol tent for sleeping, being mixed into standard patrols during the day was definitely the best in my experience.

    But like you said, talk to your girls, and your troop, and see what they reckon.

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    I am assuming it is allowed in Scouting to have new patrol arrangements for residentials, and then revert to normal patrols for meetings? We do this in Guiding for a number of reasons - girls get a chance to be Sixer/PL who would not normally get the chance before leaving (due to a number of girls leaving all at the same time, for example), and often all of one Six/Patrol is going on a residential while only one from another group is going.
    Ex-Brownie, Guide and Venture Scout, current Rainbow and Brownie Guider from NW England - here to pick your brains, sorry, exchange ideas.

    Fox is what you get called when the young members pick your name, it's better than the alternative choices!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashbourne_Akela View Post
    It's no different to having a blonde patrol or going A,B,C etc to split them up.
    Just to be incredibly pedantic (as is the way on escouts) I would argue that it IS different to going A,B,C to split them up. With that method, it is completely random whereas the other you mention is based upon some criteria. A,B,C isn't discrimination, by hair colour/gender/whatever is.

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    IanJames ianjames's Avatar
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    We use the stacking crates as used by all the supermarkets for moving there stock around. From experience most stores managers are willing to let you have a few and you can always pop into a couple of different ones to get more. The advantage to these is they are intended to be stacked, they have support rails to stop items below being crushed but when not in use they drop inside each other taking up less space.

    As for bread and the like we keep it in stacking boxes, the type used by removal firms, they have strong lids and tend to more animal proof the those sold by B & Q etc. We use these for no end of things, all joints etc for the marques are in on, gas lamps in another. If they are clearly labeled it means you only have to grab a box and you have everything.
    Ian Turner
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    2nd & 7th Welwyn Garden City Scout Group


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