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Thread: Member / Associate / Non-Member...

  1. #1
    Cub Leader jabberdabber's Avatar
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    Member / Associate / Non-Member...

    I'm in need of help, I should know something that I don't know and it's completely crazy that I cannot find the answer quickly...

    On an AA a new person gets asked if they are applying to be a Member, Associate or Non-Member... But where can I find an actual definition of what they all mean...?

    The person is applying to be a DESA so her minimum membership requirement is Non-Member (I can find that bit in the well structured POR - 'The Appointment Process') but I'd like to try and promote to her the benefits of different types of membership, but how can I do that when I can't even distinguish between the three types myself... Is there a definitive description anywhere...?

    I found this topic but I wanted any more info too...

    http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/thre...%2F+Non-Member...

    As ever I'm grateful to the collective genius of Escouts...
    John - Cub Scout Leader, District Explorer Scout Commissioner

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Non - Member + No Insurance
    Ass. Member - Limited Insurance
    Member - Best level of Insurance available (still not wonderful)

    Does your DESA need such insurance?

    One might argue that membership brings you a copy of Scouting Magazine...
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  3. #3
    No mountain too high PeterSheppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Non - Member + No Insurance
    Ass. Member - Limited Insurance
    Member - Best level of Insurance available (still not wonderful)
    Not quite... Members and Associate Members are insured to the same level under the same policy. The only real difference between the two is Members make the promise and therfore wear the world membership badge on their uniform. (Non-members including OH are not entitled to wear uniform)
    Assistant Area Commissioner (Activities) - Gwent

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    Cub Leader jabberdabber's Avatar
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    Big thanks guys...!

    To satisfy my curiosity is there no clear written description that anybody can link to... Hmm.. I shall ponder on...
    John - Cub Scout Leader, District Explorer Scout Commissioner

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Not quite... Members and Associate Members are insured to the same level under the same policy.
    Not sure, Peter. I'm certain that I read recently that there were two levels of insurance applied for Members and Ass, Members, but it was one of those details that I skimmed over as a tad irrelevant. To me, they are either a member or not.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  6. #6
    No mountain too high PeterSheppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jabberdabber View Post
    To satisfy my curiosity is there no clear written description that anybody can link to... Hmm.. I shall ponder on...
    The definitions of membership are in POR, as are the benefits, but to derive the benefits would need cross-referencing.

    As the initial discussion relates to a district role, the relevant rule is 4.1, in particular sub-clauses m, p, q, r, t, u, v.

    Insurance is dealt with in Chapter 8. There's also a small guide "Insurance - An insomniac's guide" published by Unity, which explains everything.
    Assistant Area Commissioner (Activities) - Gwent

    "Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap... but by the seeds you plant"

  7. #7
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    peter is correct.

    the role of DESA is an 'administrator' appointment (at district level).

    there is no membership requirement attached to it. they report to the DESC and the only training required is mdule 1, which is essentially linking them into the declaration they make on the AA form (awareness of scouting values and acceptance of the rules, &c).

    they are not required to pay AMS or need to be included in the census.

    they can be covered for insurance purposes (through the additional insurance for helpers, which some counties take out) but are not normally.

    they have no obligations to fulfil, other than those they make in the AA declaration.

    the difference between (1) member, (2) associate member and (3) non-member is:

    1. these make and accept The Promise. certain roles/appointments are required to be held only by members, e.g. leaders. they have full member entitlements, e.g. wearing of uniform and certain emblems. they are required to pay AMS and any levy set by region, county, district. they are included on the census

    2. these do not make and accept The Promise. certain roles/appointments are required to be held as a minimum by associate members, e.g. section assistants. they have nearly the same entitlements as members - they are insured to the same levels - but some entitlements are restricted, e.g. wearing of certain badges/emblems. essentially an associate member subscribes to the values of the SA but is not bound by them in the same way that a leader, for example, would be. thus the EO and religious policies do not prescribe them having a defined religious belief, for example. an atheist can be an associate member. (please don't start that debate again!) with not having to make The Promise they of course are not bound by it. they are required to pay AMS and maybe levies set by region, county or district. they are included on the census

    3. non-member: pretty obvious! non of the above!!

    if the DESA decides to become a member or associate member this does not mean that their training requirements or other obligations are uprated; in fact, them becoming an associate member will mean little difference. if they become a member (by affirming The Promise) they then become bound to that Promise. the only obligation as a member and/or associate member is to pay the appropriate membership subscriptions.

    i would encourage someone taking up a DESA role to become an associate member (at least). it may not bring any great or extra benefits, it will bring a liability for AMS, but it should hopefully make them feel much more strongly associated with the explorer scout provision - more a feeling that even though they are an administrator they are 'one of us'. it's then not much more of a future step to move them into, or double-up to, a unit assistant role. (and with regards to payment of AMS, one would hope that the district would susbidise this in full.)

    hth

    cordially yours, TM

  8. #8
    Cub Leader jabberdabber's Avatar
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    Superstars... Thanks guys! This murky pool is getting clearer...
    John - Cub Scout Leader, District Explorer Scout Commissioner

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