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Thread: Cctv

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    Cctv

    Wondered what people thought about the installation of a CCTV system at a Scout HQ.

    We have had stuff go missing in the past so by having a number of IR cameras strategically monitoring our equipment and building seems like a good idea.

    The plan would be to have a DVR in the securest possible location either recording 24/7 or on a timer (the building is occupied during the day).

    We would probably require 6 cameras.

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    I think the outlay and upkeep could be quite high, you have to balance it by your costs to replace losses ect. If you do get it though I would maybe use it 24/7. Also cameras can be tampered with and disabled, burglars will often check out a location before acting, so you may get faced with a bill to replace store kit and repair the CCTV at the same time.

    A group that I knew in my previous district had a local security company do walk arounds on the site, the security company's signage was up and they were employed to do 4 walks a fortnight or something small, but I believe them companies will also go around every hour if needed.

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    Thanks - the equipment we are looking to protect is rather expensive to replace

    We would probably install the system ourselves so the only upkeep cost I can think of would be the electricity (not much for a DVR, all low voltage).

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    I keep looking at CCTV and we will instal when funds are available.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





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    Could the money be bette spent on 'preventative' measures. From your post I'm not sure if this equipment is something that is stored inside or outside. CCTV could be an option, and is a deterrent, but would say getting better padlocks, or putting bars across windows etc etc be better?
    Jamie
    ACSL - 16th Lancaster Scout Group

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    Senior Member Ash's Avatar
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    Don't forget there are Data Protection Issues if you are recording. There are some pretty 'cheapish' systems out there. Maplins is a place you could start looking at:

    http://www.maplin.co.uk/500gb-8ch-ne...cameras-589999

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    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    What will the CCTV achieve?
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

    NSRA Air Rifle instructor
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    Yes this is equipment is stored inside.

    I suppose CCTV is only useful if you can identify the thieves and they can be prosecuted. The likelihood of this actually happening is low I'd have thought.

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    Senior Member Ceiron's Avatar
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    We are looking into cctv. We have had a couple of break ins. Mainly aimed at neighbouring units though not us. Fencing is another thing we are upgrading.

    Cctv wise partly is we lease to various groups and keep having issues. Ie a main door left open and unlocked when a group left. They deny it but isnt the first time.

    On the whole we think it would be a wise investment anyway.

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    Senior Member Gooders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash View Post
    Don't forget there are Data Protection Issues if you are recording.
    Can you elaborate Ash?

    Quote Originally Posted by scout View Post
    Yes this is equipment is stored inside.

    I suppose CCTV is only useful if you can identify the thieves and they can be prosecuted. The likelihood of this actually happening is low I'd have thought.
    Whilst CCTV can be a good deterrent, there's a few things to consider:

    1. You need quality equipment if you want evidential quality. That usually costs more.
    2. If you have need to call on it, the Police will take the DVR as part of the evidence and you won't get it back until the investigation is concluded. They will only accept the original, unaltered footage (I can't think of the term that they use).
    3. The only time I've needed to rely on CCTV, the toerags concerned wore hoodies pulled down over their faces and could not be identified.
    4. To get good coverage, you need more cameras than you think, which is more expense.
    5. There may be planning issues if you need to put up masts for the cameras. This seems to be a local thing though (not sure that it should be but it was the case for the Utility that I worked for).
    6. It will have a deterrent effect but it's only really of value after the event. Probably better to spend the money on prevention rather than detection.

    Just my 2pworth.

    Stephen
    Stephen Goodman

    All opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my Group, District or any other organisation of which I am a member.

  11. #11
    Map Geek marcush's Avatar
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    you'd only need a camera on all exits, was watching, well listening to something on tv this morning and they showed private cctv and they just had cameras outside and they got a conviction on that.

    Rule 66. A map and compass offers no protection against getting horribly lost.

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    Yes, I've got the T-shirt Sparkgap's Avatar
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    The first deterrent is good security, decent locks, fences etc. CCTV usually means you may have something valuable inside so could attract the sort of people you're trying to protect against. One site I am familiar with has wireless web-based CCTV around the site which also means it can be checked from home and any recording can be kept off-site. You can also go for movement operated sensors so that you don't have to scroll through hours of recorded nothing to find any problems. Cameras can be quite inconspicuous, plus you can put up dummy cameras as well. I know of one place with several dummy cameras, some of which have real cameras inside them, a sort of double bluff!
    Andy
    SL 1st Wellington
    www.wellingtonscouts.org

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    CSL DerekBuck's Avatar
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    >> Data protection issues:
    You need to make sure you have sinage saying CCTV is been used and who the contact is (operator or manager), located near entrances and clearly visable. Not sure on rules about size of sinage...
    You need to ensure it does not infringe upon anybodies privacy, so it does not overlook sombodies property where you do not have permission and most certainly not in a toilet or changing area.
    The equipment used to store and view the footage has to be in a secure location and as mentioned any recording has to be treated inline with the data protection act.
    You need to have a policy/info pack saying what it is been used for and how the data is stored, how long footage is kept for, etc freely available (could be kept in a locked room but need to be able to give a copy to somebody if asked)

    As already mentioned if you want to be able to use it to identify people you need a good quality camera, if you intend to take somebody to court this is essential as low quality footage won't even be accepted as evidence.
    You'll likely need some way of securing the cameras, such as a metal cage or fastened at height, making sure the camera is in a position where anybody with the intention of damaging the camera has to approach it from the front it a good idea (or have cameras covering each other)
    Hidden cameras do seem to be allowed but it'd be advisable to say hidden cameras are in use to fully cover yourself.


    You may face some concern from parents but if you explain the need for the cameras they should be okay with it, I know many schools where entrances are covered by cameras so parents may be used to it.

    Remember the cameras are a deterent and potential tool to catch culprits, to prevent loss you need to ensure the items are secure in the first place.

    Guidance can be found here: http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_organisati...ides/cctv.aspx
    (Annoyingly I couldn't get the pdf to open on this PC so may be off a little on the rules)

    CSL, Webmaster, Quartermaster and general dogsbody
    Eskmouth (Whitby) Scout Group

    "You must be mad to do Scouts" - Friends

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    Go for it, in fact our insurance made a requirement of it for certain kit, we done it on the cheap ourselves and when we installed broadband we can now link it to it so if the alarm goes of we can have a quick look and see if its someone we know set it of by accident. (alarm phones key people in a list in turn)we caught some little gits who got in and set of the fire extinguishers but the big breakins we have had. we have seen the scum breaking in but they smashed the cameras and had hood etc on. we now have some traps set thet if they get in again we might actually get them :-)

    you might find you have a parent who is technical enough to do it for you. ask around before you go to one of the big expensive companies, they really do know how to charge.
    Paul Austin
    Kent Scouts SASU Water team
    G0AXQ, intrests in Scouting, Cycling, Hiking, anything on the water. seeing the young people achive.

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    Senior Member WillHazell's Avatar
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    We're having CCTV installed because we've had people destroy our trees and make a den out of them and beginning of last week, our campfire circle was destroyed and we've only had it for a few weeks.
    William Hazell

    Assistant Beaver Scout Leader - Grange Park Scout Group
    District Communications Administrator - Grafton District


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