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Thread: horrible camp

  1. #1
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    horrible camp

    We've just come back from a horrible camp. Lovely cabin, warm and pleasant. 16 kids plus 4 leaders.
    The issue, I think, is that our kids are acting wholly selfishly and don't give a ***t for anyone else. Sleep deprivation was an issue, as 2 PLs kept everyone awake by wittering, and others joined in. I slept in next room and tried to control it without success, eventually falling asleep myself out of exhaustion despite the row.
    We did talk to those concerned ("talk" is an understatement).

    I would say that in all my years of warrants, I've only once before had kids who just wouldn't sleep (at least for night two and onwards)

    I'm putting much of the nastiness down to lack of sleep, but frankly I'd not be surprised if these were all clones of our troop, none of which had ever heard of the Scout Laws.

    We leaders are contemplating various things, one of which is to walk away. At least one was in tears when we met after the camp.

    Thanks for reading.....!

  2. #2
    Keith at 2M Keith at 2M's Avatar
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    Time for a beer
    The Roman Empire did not become great by holding meetings. It did so by killing everyone that opposed their point of view.

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    My CSL pointed out that I've had a warrant for 42 years, so I think it's time for a rest.

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    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    Deep breaths all round - review the camp bit by bit, were the wrong scouts intogether, were they put to bed too early, maybe consider red carding the two PLs fro the next camp, or even stripping them of PL status? Above all regain control, and lay the law down.

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    We started threatening 5am early morning runs and calisthenics before breakfast for those that are still awake after the Leaders go to bed. (Last Leader goes at about 1am)

    We had to actually follow through once or twice for them to realize we were serious about it. (Luckily we have a 'morning person' Leader that typically would be exercising at 5am on a typical day so was able to run them good) The key is if you threaten it you have to go through with it in order to maintain control. Seeing we followed through, they no longer disbelieve.

    They are welcome to go for an early morning run without staying up past the last Leader also. Just those that insist on staying up and disturbing others are not going to be lazing around in the morning while everyone else is up and about already. There is a time to sleep and a time to be up.

    But going over what happened at camp with all involved to see the what worked/what didn't will help them realize the "what didn't" on your end as well.

    Perhaps you need to talk about bunk assignments, and also timing for lights out (and the definition of lights out), expectations of the Leaders and of the YP, and work out consequences of actions.

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    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    If it was 2 PL's and it was that bad - I'd have had their stripes off their shirts there and then as I have done to a Sixer and seconder - the legend lives for years.

    Make sure parents are aware 1st thing in morning - ring them so they know the truth b4 they get the stories.
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

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    Thanks- we did discuss the lights out and other issues on day 1 with those concerned. In depth.

    This is a bit like trying to put a pop up tent away -sort one bit and something else pops out. Every event seems to have a different issue- we chat with them, sort it and then next time another issue crops up. We did a lot of sessions on the laws- needn't have bothered, it seems.

    We did a few weeks on good diet, which everyone enjoyed. Confiscated over 30 worth of sweets from two girls on Friday night.

    This week we did a session for younger ones on camping kit and what to bring- again enjoyed, and a game that everyone joined in with on the topic.
    I can't list the number of items people forgot- even though the health form for camp had a kit list with it.

    No: we've all discussed and we've had enough. We've someone in the wings, apparently so it's pass the parcel time, I think.

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    I don't want to sound patronising here, because I am extremely inexperienced compared to yourself but perhaps for now it would simply be best to get a good night's sleep and review to situation later in the week

    Jamie
    Jamie
    ACSL - 16th Lancaster Scout Group

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    Quote Originally Posted by roger-uk View Post
    If it was 2 PL's and it was that bad - I'd have had their stripes off their shirts there and then as I have done to a Sixer and seconder - the legend lives for years.

    .
    yep, I'd echo that - the phrase "Akela do you have your penknife on you" (because I once removed stripes at camp from a sixer & a seconder) has a remarkable effect!
    Kate, CSL (and GDB(S))
    1st Weald Brook Scout Group
    Brentwood, Essex
    www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by etheltheaard View Post
    This week we did a session for younger ones on camping kit and what to bring- again enjoyed, and a game that everyone joined in with on the topic.
    I can't list the number of items people forgot- even though the health form for camp had a kit list with it.
    This is often the case of a parent deciding they 'know better' and switching out kit on the Scouts and the Scouts not even knowing.

    I know our Troop has done kit checks for camps on a Tuesday night, then on Friday night the Scout arrives at camp and the kit has changed totally from what they brought on Tuesday. When asked it was the parents changed things out as they didn't think they would need it or thought they would need something else. And if you ask the parents they will claim responsibility for the change too.

    We had one where the Scouts were going on a winter camp. There was no snow in the city so the parents decided that the Scout didn't need an extra pair of mitts as listed, so took them out of the bag so the mitts "wouldn't get lost". Comes to camp and there is 4 ft of snow on the ground. The extra pair of mitts would have come in handy. When asked where they were (seeing that at the kit check they were in the pack) it was said "Dad didn't think we would need them, and didn't want me to lose anymore". Well Scout had cold hands that camp, not Dad.
    We have also had Scouts turn up and their parents 'set up' for them leaving their boots at the door hollering to the Scout that the boots are "over here". Then we have a Scout running around in shoes because he "didn't bring boots", which are later found at the door when everyone accounts for their boots and there is still one pair left.

    This is a bit like trying to put a pop up tent away -sort one bit and something else pops out. Every event seems to have a different issue- we chat with them, sort it and then next time another issue crops up
    I would say as long as it is not the same issues that keep popping up again and again (with the same YP), then it is progress. You cannot know everything that will come up as it has never been an issue before. And sometimes things that are will pop up with one batch of YP and be no issue at all with another batch.
    If it is the same issues that keep cycling around with the same YP, then there needs to be a change made.

  11. #11
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    sounds like there's a lack of respect for you leaders. They don't take you seriously maybe? In a kind of "what's he going to do? I can safely ignore him".

    Or they're ready for explorers.

    Sleep on it.

    Ian
    Ian Wilkins
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    SM(s) (B-PSA) RedCoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Or they're ready for explorers.
    Not sure that showing contempt for the leaders, their fellow Scouts and the associated parts of Scout Law suggests that they're ready for anything more advanced.
    Richard Cullen
    Fakenham Lancaster Baden-Powell Air Scouts

    Per Exploranda ad Astra!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedCoat View Post
    Not sure that showing contempt for the leaders, their fellow Scouts and the associated parts of Scout Law suggests that they're ready for anything more advanced.
    You have genuinely never encountered bad behaviour as a result of YP who have "outgrown" a Section?

    Neil

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    Yes, I've got the T-shirt Sparkgap's Avatar
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    I had a weekend camp where the little dears didn't stop yattering until 2am Saturday, then started again at 5am! On Saturday we did a day hike in blistering hot weather with lots of uphill bits. Scouts all went to bed early by 8pm and were still silent when I got them up at 10am on the Sunday! Also did an autumn camp where we roused the kids at 5am with a fire drill in the hut followed by a dawn walk for 3 miles across the downs.
    Andy
    SL 1st Wellington
    www.wellingtonscouts.org

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    Sorry Aard, not teaching you to blow eggs, you know all this, but . . . discipline: the kids need to know where the line is, and if they cross it the sky falls in - immediately. I don't quite follow this business of sending kids out for a run at 5am when they were keeping people awake at 2am. If there's a couple of kids not letting others get their (needed) sleep much past midnight they go for a run - now. I've had kids running round a field on Dartmoor at 1am in a howling gale - when they got back it was all bravado but they tiptoed to bed very quietly. Of course you need a leader fit enough and keen enough to supervise. But every time you wait til the next day for the 'remonstration' you lose ground.
    John Russell
    ex-CSL now ACSL 1st Pinhoe Exeter Devon
    Cubs don't care how much you know, but they need to know how much you care.

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