This Site Uses Cookies. Please Click Here to view our Cookie Policy
Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 208
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Closure of Little Abington Campsite

    Thread opened for discussions on this question.

    http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/thre...723#post324723

  2. #2
    AESL & AGSL shiftypete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    11,484
    Thanks
    2,470
    Thanked 840 Times in 553 Posts
    Whilst Wayne might be able to have words with the Exec and see if he can persuade them not to sell legally the Exec are the owners of the land and ultimately its their decision whether to sell or not. Having said that i hope some of the opponents of the sale have taken my advice and are going to stand for election to the County Exec and try to overturn the decision to sell.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,346
    Thanks
    365
    Thanked 372 Times in 240 Posts
    I agree that Wayne cannot intervene in this.

    The County Executive are not the owners of this property, but the trustees. They must act in the best interests of the County and it's members.

    If you feel strongly enough, I suggest you check all the facts, make sure you are right and they are wrong (which might be a matter of opinion). Formulate an alternative plan, circulate it widely and put it to the executive. If you get no joy then be prepared to stand for election to the executive. Pack the AGM with your supporters.

  4. #4
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    11,503
    Thanks
    1,440
    Thanked 2,747 Times in 1,142 Posts
    if a scout leader, section, group, district or anybody else were acting outside the best interests of scouting, i would hope that managers would not abdicate responsibility.

    A fuss has been created about this site and i think it is legitimate to ask those along the chain of command to look into it.

    just because the land is in the county's name does not mean that they do not have a responsibility to do right and line managers have a duty to see that the right things happen.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,346
    Thanks
    365
    Thanked 372 Times in 240 Posts
    Members of the County Executive are 'line managed' by the County Scout Council, only the CC has a line manager - the Regional Commissioner. If you believe that the CC is acting totally reclessly (rather than a difference of opinion, which would be more difficult to argue as they are backed by the rest of the exec), I guess you could make a formal complaint.

    You could also make a complaint to the Charity Commission, but like Wayne, I doubt they would do much in this case.
    Last edited by khoomei; 07-06-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  6. #6
    SM(s) (B-PSA) RedCoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,371
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    I guess the money for Bear's helicopter rides has to come from somewhere...
    Richard Cullen
    Fakenham Lancaster Baden-Powell Air Scouts

    Per Exploranda ad Astra!

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,321
    Thanks
    381
    Thanked 977 Times in 579 Posts
    Not helpful Richard.

    Personally I would urge against selling land and if there is no other alternative would urge leasing it out instead, but we have had this discussion before.

    Of course if this sale is really unpopular you should mobilise as many people as possible to protest using the scouting structure and charity laws. I am no expert on this but there are others on here who are, perhaps they could advise on how to registrar the strongest possible protest within the scouting rules and how to replace officials who are no longer serving Scouting's interests.

  8. #8
    Escouts Management Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    3,236
    Thanks
    116
    Thanked 48 Times in 23 Posts
    Wayne simply can not get involved in this.

    It's a local issue and one the trustees of the County they have to make the decision in the best interests of the County.

    Personally I would be looking at any other option before having to sell, if that's leasing the land to a local District or Group if they are willing to take the financial risks then that would be one way to solve the issue.
    Daniel

    Explorer Scout Leader | Group Trustee
    4th Huddersfield Golcar Scout Group
    4thgolcar.org.uk
    District Media Development Manager
    Huddersfield South West
    hswscouts.org.uk



  9. #9
    SM(s) (B-PSA) RedCoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,371
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    Not helpful Richard.
    Yeah. Those annoying little inconvient truths about spending priorities. Camping and activity fields should be at the centre of Scouting fund allocations, not celeb media jollies.
    Richard Cullen
    Fakenham Lancaster Baden-Powell Air Scouts

    Per Exploranda ad Astra!

  10. #10
    Former Scouter mediamanager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    West Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,120
    Thanks
    402
    Thanked 324 Times in 196 Posts
    The decision isn't a popular one but then many made at an executive can be seen as "not in the spirit".

    The question and focus now should be how the executive intend to spend the monies generated to provide improved support across the whole area - especially as this was one of their underlying defences to the sale.

    My experience comes from the sale of a district HQ (which was once owned by a Scout Group which closed) and the monies were to be used for the benefit of the district.

    Leaders need to see a clear and complete breakdown of this to enable them to accept, in time, the need to sell.

    The last thing they need is the funds raised to either (a) sit in a low yield investment account or (b) be used to develop Scouting solely for a specific area or demographic.

    I can't easily think of a lasting legacy that can come from the funds - but then I'm not a trustee that has made this decision.

    One thing is for sure, people (Scouters) need to stop seeing executive committee/trustees as being the "boring business" side to the movement - they make decisions that have a major effect on lives.

    ------ Update --- The Following was Added within 30 Minutes of the above ---

    Quote Originally Posted by RedCoat View Post
    Yeah. Those annoying little inconvient truths about spending priorities. Camping and activity fields should be at the centre of Scouting fund allocations, not celeb media jollies.
    Yeah! So true because his involvement has done little to improve the image of the UKSA with the public/press!!

    Maybe we should rely totally on unplanned and negative press coverage and fight the fires as they arise.

    I would have thought helicopters and BPSA Air Scouts would be a popular mix but then we are talking separate movements so the leakage of benefits would be reduced but I'm sure there are some advantages to your organisation.

    ------ Update --- The Following was Added within 30 Minutes of the above ---

    Quote Originally Posted by RedCoat View Post
    Yeah. Those annoying little inconvient truths about spending priorities.
    Am I the only one sensing jealousy?
    Last edited by mediamanager; 08-06-2013 at 08:37 AM.
    Mark Pullen
    Cub Sectional Assistant - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County Media Manager, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, Media Manager, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chairman)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,321
    Thanks
    381
    Thanked 977 Times in 579 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RedCoat View Post
    Yeah. Those annoying little inconvient truths about spending priorities. Camping and activity fields should be at the centre of Scouting fund allocations, not celeb media jollies.
    Sorry Richard you are going to have to join the dots for me here. Can you show me the paper trail which links the costs of Bears activities to the sale of this site ? The PR strategy of which Bear is a part has contributed to as boost in membership and therefore income.

  12. #12
    SM(s) (B-PSA) RedCoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,371
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    Sorry, but I don't see celeb jollies as an appropriate use of charity money when core facilities are being cut. I guess that Bear has not inspired such a huge take-up for you if that is still going on. I'd also question how far that Bear has "improved the image" away from those already involved. Certainly can't see that Bear in the Air has made any difference for the TSA Groups that have closed locally to me over the last couple of years. Some extra funding might have helped, though.

    As for helicopters. Yeah, we do go together. That's why we have our own. lol
    Richard Cullen
    Fakenham Lancaster Baden-Powell Air Scouts

    Per Exploranda ad Astra!

  13. #13
    Former Scouter mediamanager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    West Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,120
    Thanks
    402
    Thanked 324 Times in 196 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RedCoat View Post
    Some extra funding might have helped, though.
    For what specifically?

    Reading the information provided by the executive the site was hardly used by the majority of groups/members therefore if, spent wisely, the funds generated could be better allocated.

    Your distaste of funding positive media coverage in external outlets is admirable considering the strength of the argument against such a stance - I've seen much of the coverage produced across the UK and BG, along with the Duchess etc, has helped to bring Scouting into many more households.

    I'm sure your helicopter has generated plenty of media coverage and boosted the image of the BPSA and specifically your group no end - national recognition isn't all it's cracked up to be so I agree that you needn't bother exert energy/effort/imagination into achieving it!

    ------ Update --- The Following was Added within 30 Minutes of the above ---

    Quote Originally Posted by RedCoat View Post
    Certainly can't see that Bear in the Air has made any difference for the TSA Groups that have closed locally to me over the last couple of years. Some extra funding might have helped, though.
    If monies were the problem for these groups then the executive committees obviously made some choices that failed to save the group.

    We all know that throwing money into failing groups makes all the difference!
    Mark Pullen
    Cub Sectional Assistant - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County Media Manager, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, Media Manager, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chairman)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    5,321
    Thanks
    381
    Thanked 977 Times in 579 Posts
    Can you show me the paper trail which links the cost of Bears activities with the sale of this site?

  15. #15
    SM(s) (B-PSA) RedCoat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,371
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
    Hey, if you are happy for your charity to be spending, I believe, 800,000 a year on a celeb air taxi service that's your call. If mine did that I'd be asking why image (celebrating watching a celeb do things on the tv) is seemingly more important than substance (getting the young people out there doing activities). Still, I know that to some making any noise other than fawning sycophanct towards St. Bear of Grylls is frowned upon, so I'll leave you to it. I would imagine that 800,000 would provide a rather nice amount for upgrading sites and developing leader skills - but, of course, that is not going to grab a couple of inches of media space.

    Has our helicopter generated loads of media coverage for the B-PSA? Not really, as that is not our goal. We got it to use with our Scouts, not to give ourselves a media ego stroking. Providing good quality activities seems to be plenty good enough to keep our Group membership levels high.
    Richard Cullen
    Fakenham Lancaster Baden-Powell Air Scouts

    Per Exploranda ad Astra!

Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [Answered] Proposed sale of Little Abington Campsite.
    By Hathi27th in forum UK Chief Commissioner Questions (CLOSED)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-06-2013, 03:37 PM
  2. Closure of Free Web Hosting
    By Richard in forum Announcements
    Replies: 76
    Last Post: 24-10-2010, 10:19 PM
  3. Group closure opinions
    By chil1d in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 23-04-2010, 03:09 PM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20-03-2010, 01:22 PM
  5. Early Closure of Moderator Applications
    By Craig in forum Announcements
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 15-08-2008, 09:16 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •