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Thread: Young Person Information Form, all info on 1 page.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Cottsyboy's Avatar
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    Young Person Information Form, all info on 1 page.

    Well Peeps, after a few tweeks of our Cub Personal Info form that we use, I have managed to get all of the required fields and also carer DOB on 1 page. This form also has permission for photo's, medical treatment in an emergency and DPA signature.
    If someone could tell me how to attach it from my desktop to this post I will stick it in for anyone interested to have a look at and hopefully let me know if I have missed anything that will not allow YP details to be entered successfully on Compass. Please note you will have to instruct me like a dummy for computer use, I ain't Bill Gates.

    Regards
    Last edited by Cottsyboy; 18-11-2014 at 06:28 PM.

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    Unfortunately that is against the rules.

    POR 14.12g

    All joining information must be either entered
    directly into compass or recorded using the
    Association‟s official Joining Forms and then
    be transferred accurately into Compass

    Quote Originally Posted by Cottsyboy View Post
    This form also has permission for photo's, medical treatment in an emergency
    Why are you asking for permission for photos and medical treatment?

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmolesey View Post
    and medical treatment?
    because the scout association recommends it ish...

    not for emergency 1st aid but there is a note that should be held by leaders along these lines:

    If it becomes necessary for the above named young person to receive medical treatment and I cannot be contacted to
    authorise this, I hereby give my general consent to any necessary medical treatment and authorise the Leader in charge
    to sign any document required by the hospital authorities.


    Note: The medical profession takes the view that the parent’s/carer’s consent to medical treatment cannot be delegated. This view is explicit in The Children’s Act 1989.
    Thus, medical consent forms have no legal status and a doctor or nurse insisting on the consent of a parent/carer to a particular treatment has the right to do so.
    For this reason we do not recommend that Leaders insist on parents/carers signing the statement above. However, it can be a comfort to medical staff to have general
    consent in advance from parents/carers or to have a Leader on hand able to sign forms required by medical authorities.


    many of us collect it once, rather than every event... esp as most accidents occur at the hut (don't they? am sure i was taught that)

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    OK... but the photos?

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    Senior Member Cottsyboy's Avatar
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    And what happens to the form once its entered into Compass, it isn't retained so therefore must be destroyed. My form is our Pack record for each Cub asking if we can take photos, some parents don't want us too so we don't have any cub photos with them in it. Medical treatment is the standard in the absence of parents we can sign medical forms as requested by medical staff. Its happended to us and we have had to use it. Its all in one page and kept by us until the Cub moves on or leaves Scouting. The 7 page YPIF is not tree friendly. As long as the info is correctly entered into Compass, who cares how its obtained.

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    We have done similar, for many years we have given out a contact details, permission for general meetings Inc. outside, gift aid and photo form.

    We have then modified it to add in the extra buts that is now required for Compass, this was done at the end of August for restart in September. We have not yet explained about Compass as things have only just been firmed up timeline wise at HQ.

    Whilst the POR rule does say it has to be on the official form, it mentions nothing about Groups being unable to use their own forms for their own record keeping systems - be it an excel spreadsheet or OSM etc. It is this information I have used for my youth upload form which parents will check when they log in to Compass.

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    Senior Member Cottsyboy's Avatar
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    Mine is an official form, officially designed by and officially used by me. I will send all parents the real official form and my revised form. I'll let them choose which form they send back. Compass won't know or care what form I use me thinks. I'm beginnng to think that Compass is an anagram of lets take a simple idea like OSM and make it really difficult for the volunteers to use.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Cottsyboy For This Useful Post:

    Simon Hubbard (18-11-2014)

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    Quote Originally Posted by fmolesey View Post
    Unfortunately that is against the rules.

    POR 14.12g

    All joining information must be either entered
    directly into compass or recorded using the
    Association‟s official Joining Forms and then
    be transferred accurately into Compass
    As per POR you have two options - use the official form OR enter directly into compass.

    I'm not an English language expert but a dictionary reveals several meanings for the word "directly" including:

    1. in a direct line, way, or manner; straight.
    2. at once; without delay.
    3. shortly; soon.
    4. exactly; precisely: directly opposite the store.

    Which meaning is intended by POR? If you read it as option 3 or 4 using your own custom form would comply with POR as long as info is entered into compass in a timely or accurate manner.

    Am I missing something or is the wording on this rule a bit confusing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cottsyboy View Post
    I'm beginnng to think that Compass is an anagram of lets take a simple idea like OSM and make it really difficult for the volunteers to use.
    ScampOS(M)

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    I think in this context it's pretty obvious what they mean.

    "Directly into compass" i.e. entered straight into compass (no forms)

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    Senior Member alirainsbury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon.md View Post

    Am I missing something or is the wording on this rule a bit confusing?
    Are you suggesting that there is a rule in POR that is vague and could be interpreted in a number of different, potentially conflicting, ways?

    Well I never, who'd have thunk it?
    CSL 1st Marple Bradshaw Cubs

  13. #12
    Senior Member Simon Hubbard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fmolesey View Post
    I think in this context it's pretty obvious what they mean.

    "Directly into compass" i.e. entered straight into compass (no forms)
    Using the IT network infrastructure we all have in our huts while the parent helps us fill in the online information rather than doing what they actually want to do.... Just get little Billy home and into bed because it's a school night.

    Yeah I can see that happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Hubbard View Post
    Using the IT network infrastructure we all have in our huts while the parent helps us fill in the online information rather than doing what they actually want to do.... Just get little Billy home and into bed because it's a school night.

    Yeah I can see that happening.
    Don't shoot the messenger but that's what they mean.

    If you can't do that you use the Association's official form if you want to comply with POR.

    Yes it's a crap system but I don't think the rules are ambiguous.

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    You have to obtain the info from somewhere and then enter into compass. Now unless any leaders are clairvoyant (think I missed that module) that info will come from asking the parent.

    So option one - obtain info from parent, enter that info straight into compass.

    Option two - get parent to fill in official form, enter that info into compass.

    I'm still not convinced POR actually restricts how the info is collected if opting for option 1 (although I can accept it probably is trying to).
    Last edited by Simon.md; 18-11-2014 at 09:55 PM.

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    I can't enter info directly into compass at our meeting place and I refuse to hand out the appalling form the HQ have produced as it is not fit for purpose. I will be using my own 2 sided form which collects the same info without the intrusive questions and terrible layout. If HQ want me to give put a paper form of their own design then it needs to be as concise as possible whilst collecting the necesary info, collect the info I actually want it to (like Scouting Guiding background of parents if any) and look half decent. If in an hour I can produce something which meets these criteria TSA can certainly manage it.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Previous Scouting Roles
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    2017-2018 AGSL

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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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