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Thread: Annual membership Fee 2016

  1. #16
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    ..................I would expect to see a rise in the number of adult volunteers becoming members (and indeed I assume this is the reason behind it). There is now far less reason for exec members, helpers, etc not to become full members of the association where in the past they might have been associate members or non-members. Coupled with the removal on the bar of adults with an absence of religion, and the new promise options, there really is no reason for any adult helping in any capacity with Scouting not to be registered and become a member.
    Equally there really is no reason (for the adults or the Group), for any adult already doing those roles, to become a member. The only reason that I can see, and as you alluded to, is for the TSA to say that they have achieved the Vision 2018 objective of having 150,000 volunteers!

    Cynical maybe, but I really can't see why such volunteers need to be a member.
    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulArthurs View Post
    Similar question of Wayne was asked here: https://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/thr...rship-Fee-2016
    Yes. Springs over and weve not heard a word.
    .

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Equally there really is no reason (for the adults or the Group), for any adult already doing those roles, to become a member. The only reason that I can see, and as you alluded to, is for the TSA to say that they have achieved the Vision 2018 objective of having 150,000 volunteers!

    Cynical maybe, but I really can't see why such volunteers need to be a member.
    Yep. I think it will leave a lot of dead wood on the books, as there will be little incentive to clear down the membership lists.

    Every Explorer turning 18 will be recorded as a Network member, and there will be no reason to take them off the books until they reach 25. Similarly, only repeat DBS checks (or reviews, which are often overlooked) will force other adults off the books.

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  5. #19
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    Yes. Springs over and weve not heard a word.
    .
    If you remember, and I'm sure you do, census was a bit of a debacle. I'd imagine there's been a knock on effect on progress, especially with the ongoing c*****s/DBS issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    The only reason that I can see, and as you alluded to, is for the TSA to say that they have achieved the Vision 2018 objective of having 150,000 volunteers!
    And I thought I was cynical!

    Ian
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    If you remember, and I'm sure you do, census was a bit of a debacle. I'd imagine there's been a knock on effect on progress, especially with the ongoing c*****s/DBS issues.



    And I thought I was cynical!

    Ian
    In any year TSA announce the membership fee in the summer.Our District and County by the end of jab/fen and expect payment in march.

    We currently pay £46 per head. If the national increase is £5 a year will the dist and county elements of the fee disappear?

    No i dont think so -so we will be facing a last minute overall increase and the local will say they cant make a early decision as they dont know TSA element.

    ALL three should be setting at least a year ahead -so regardless of the census process issues this year the rate should have been set -so groups have teh full year to collect from the members.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    ALL three should be setting at least a year ahead -so regardless of the census process issues this year the rate should have been set -so groups have teh full year to collect from the members.

    They should be, but you can even if they don't. By collecting AMS as part of your weekly/ monthly/ termly payment you can set aside the AMS in anticipation. You make your own AMS higher than the previous year by 5-10% and explain that this excess goes towards running the group. Come March you should have the AMS in the bank ready to go.
    Ewan Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    They should be, but you can even if they don't. By collecting AMS as part of your weekly/ monthly/ termly payment you can set aside the AMS in anticipation. You make your own AMS higher than the previous year by 5-10% and explain that this excess goes towards running the group. Come March you should have the AMS in the bank ready to go.
    The Group thinks £46 that we pay way is way to high. We would not get support for a further levy.
    There is no effort to fund raise -anything deemed required is simply part of the levies.
    There should be some accountability.

  10. #23
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    There is no excuse for districts and counties to not reveal their levies in advance now, as their levy shouldn't be affected by TSA's levy any more (they don't need to cover the cost of adults)

    A year would be good - although April/May would perhaps be more realistic and should be ok for most groups. We are fortunate that our County levy is quite low and rarely changes, and district level is very low, so once the HQ amount is released we can confidently estimate the amount.

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

  11. #24
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    The Group thinks £46 that we pay way is way to high. We would not get support for a further levy.
    There is no effort to fund raise -anything deemed required is simply part of the levies.
    There should be some accountability.
    We had at our peak 150 members, of which 29 were adults. Adult AMS was paid via a levy on the AMS. So, over a year there was £57.50 paid into an AMS fund, to pay the AMS paid of £35 IIRC. Every year, because of growth, we still ended up having to put additional funds in, a couple of hundred at most.

    In addition we took another £62.50 in Group Membership, plus £10 Buildings surcharge. The former to pay for the building upkeep and the bills, the latter to help fund building projects. Over the year the parents paid £150 ( going up to £180 last year). Not one single parent complained - plus we still did fundraising to help us subsidise trips and activities.

    Navs is a whole different ball game though; £30 insurance fee, plus £2 per week if we are at our base. Cost price if at a paid activity and free if we are doing something with no cost. So, from last year's accounts we reckon about £90 plus paid activities ( that would have been paid activities in Scouts anyway.)

    For information, because we do get asked. The Ins. Premium is £260, Plus £195 affiliation to NSRA to cover shooting. As in Scouts, the surplus goes to buy equipment. (This incudes PL, EL and TL Insurance).
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  12. #25
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    We had at our peak 150 members, of which 29 were adults. Adult AMS was paid via a levy on the AMS. So, over a year there was £57.50 paid into an AMS fund, to pay the AMS paid of £35 IIRC. Every year, because of growth, we still ended up having to put additional funds in, a couple of hundred at most.

    In addition we took another £62.50 in Group Membership, plus £10 Buildings surcharge. The former to pay for the building upkeep and the bills, the latter to help fund building projects. Over the year the parents paid £150 ( going up to £180 last year). Not one single parent complained - plus we still did fundraising to help us subsidise trips and activities.

    Navs is a whole different ball game though; £30 insurance fee, plus £2 per week if we are at our base. Cost price if at a paid activity and free if we are doing something with no cost. So, from last year's accounts we reckon about £90 plus paid activities ( that would have been paid activities in Scouts anyway.)

    For information, because we do get asked. The Ins. Premium is £260, Plus £195 affiliation to NSRA to cover shooting. As in Scouts, the surplus goes to buy equipment. (This incudes PL, EL and TL Insurance).
    That's a very good insurance premium Ewan and I am assuming its not a"grace and Favor" type policy like TSA. It always niggles me, Having been in the insurance industry dealing with Commercial policies as an underwriter, that my cover is based on TSA agreeing to allow insurers to deal!!
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Roger, it is a proper insurance premium direct with the Group.

    It covers almost everything that the UNITY policy does as standard, and includes Trustee Liability. It does not include personal liability and I have asked about this because it concerned me. Some other Nav Groups have it included though.

    The broker explained that the Public Liability and Employee liability covered us if there was an accident and it was our fault. They had some doubts about the Personal Liability ( which they do offer to those who specifically ask) because according to them, this only covers the individual who has an accident that is their fault. So, we would be paying a premium to cover the risk of someone poking themselves in the eye with their own finger, so to speak. It is an element that I will be looking into for next year.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  14. #27
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    I think that's a terminology thing. Personal liability as the TSA policy refers to it means the liability of the individual to others (liability they personally have, not liability for themselves personally, IYSWIM). I don't think there is any policy (other than the personal injury bit) against people being negligent to themselves.

    Edit: TSA actually refer to that as public liability:
    http://www.scoutinsurance.co.uk/cove...liability.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    I retain the view, though, that PAME is a bit of a waste of space because of its low level of cover, though I suppose it might have the advantage that it could prevent people sueing for compensation as there is a defined benefit (albeit a small one).
    Last edited by Neil Williams; 17-06-2015 at 09:52 AM.

  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    There is no excuse for districts and counties to not reveal their levies in advance now, as their levy shouldn't be affected by TSA's levy any more (they don't need to cover the cost of adults)
    Yes it will be affected.

    At the moment the levies come from young people + adults. Take away the adults and you have less money coming in.

    We pay for a Local Development Officer in our County so it's quite important.

    As it is unclear what will happen next year we have not yet given the Districts/Groups a figure. We usually try to give a year's notice of the County figure, but what the Districts do is up to them.

    Our County Secretary has contacted HQ (as she is aware that Districts need this information sooner rather than later) and had a reply from the Director of Finance via the Information Centre which says that information regarding both the rate of the national subscription for 2016, and about "possible changes to adult membership fees", is not going to be available until after the Board meeting on the 11th July 2015.





    Andrew

  16. #29
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Rush View Post
    Yes it will be affected.

    At the moment the levies come from young people + adults. Take away the adults and you have less money coming in.

    Only if the adults pay their own AMS. Many don't, in which case, however it is dressed up, the youth members pay for the adults and for those Groups. Districts etc.. operating that way, there will be no real change other than an evenng out of the playing field.

    It is interesting to see how much the insurance premium can be when stripped of all the additions covered in AMS... I was stunned, I expected it to be much higher than it is.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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  17. #30
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    It is interesting to see how much the insurance premium can be when stripped of all the additions covered in AMS... I was stunned, I expected it to be much higher than it is.
    Well according to your above post your insurance is £30 per person which is more than it costs us via TSA given the HQ AMS was only £31 last year and there is no way all the other things HQ cover would be paid for by the additional £1 AMS.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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