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Thread: Annual membership Fee 2016

  1. #31
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    I thought the HQ element of AMS was £21 last year....

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

  2. #32
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Right, I've run the numbers, and I think to retain the same income overall, and HQs wish to "strongly encourage" a reduced levee at county and district is pie in the sky, if they are going to not collect any money from adults (or their groups).

    Unless my calculations are wrong.

    Say the district levee was £5.
    County £6
    HQ £21

    And you have 670 kids
    And you have 140 adults in groups that would pay the district levee
    And you have 14 adults in the district that would have had their AMS paid out of district funds

    Now you collect
    670 x £5 = £3350
    140 x £5 = £700
    Total = £4050

    Then you have to pay 14 x (£21 + £6) = £378

    Leaving £3672

    In the new world order of all adults paying £0...and the levee staying at £5
    670 x £5 = £3350

    Leaving you short £322.

    Interestingly, if your district levee was only £2, you end up collecting more in the new world order, so could reduce the levee a bit (15p!), and get roughly the same income.

    Clever people could probably create some sort of spreadsheet linked up to a chart that would let you plug the numbers in of how many kids, how many adults paying a district levee, and how many district AMS's there are to pay. And it would show a graph of income v levee amount, and the sweet spot of where the two lines crossed.

    And also...if county decide not to drop the adult levee....you'd have to collect that from all the adults (or their groups), and the burden of the district bods county levee would fall on the young people....unless there was a district adult levee.

    My guess is that county will be in the same boat, depending on how much they levee at the moment, the higher it is, the more likely they'll be short if they remove the county levee from all adults in district. Or rather, the more likely they'll have to put the levee up for young people....

    Yes, in a county of
    6000 kids
    2000 adults
    40 county people that pay AMS to HQ
    with a £5 levee

    Your income drops £10,000
    but your outgoings only drop £870

    Therefore county levee to the kids has to go up.

    In a way, it's more honest, I suspect, as I'd be surprised if many groups ask adults to pay for AMS, nor districts, nor county, so the kids were being charged one way or another. Might come as a bit of a shock for groups that collect it direct from the parents each Feb/March.

    On the first page of this, someone ball parked the new AMS at £26.
    My calcs show at proportions of kids to adults as above, the district levee will have to go up 50p, and district levee by £1.

    So total membership fee would be £37.50 instead of £31.

    You mileage, and mine, will vary in actuality.

    Ian, putting away the back of his fag packet/envelope.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
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  4. #33
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    I thought the HQ element of AMS was £21 last year....
    Whoops you are correct my memory failing me there which si abit silly seeing as I posted the correct figure earlier in this thread lol

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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  5. #34
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    Gah, that didn't make as much sense on a re-read as it did in my head.

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    Gah, that didn't make as much sense on a re-read as it did in my head.
    What didn't?
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    What didn't?
    The post I then edited into oblivion.... Couldn't find the delete button

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    ianw (17-06-2015)

  9. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Right, I've run the numbers, and I think to retain the same income overall, and HQs wish to "strongly encourage" a reduced levee at county and district is pie in the sky, if they are going to not collect any money from adults (or their groups).

    Unless my calculations are wrong.
    Your calculations look correct, but Counties and Districts can do these calculations right now because they are not dependent on what level the HQ AMS will be. They are only dependent on the assumption that no AMS will be levied on adults, which I believe is already a given.

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    shiftypete (17-06-2015)

  11. #38
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    I suspect our District levy will stay the same as it was already low and was only charged on kids not adults already so with a small saving on a few membership fees for the small District Team its not worth messing around with.

    I hope we make an overall saving on the County Levy and HQ AMS in our Group/Unit as we currently have quite a high adult to kids ratio, especially when our Leaders not based in Leeds but who come and help run our camps are included (which we always do)

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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  12. #39
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    Your calculations look correct, but Counties and Districts can do these calculations right now because they are not dependent on what level the HQ AMS will be. They are only dependent on the assumption that no AMS will be levied on adults, which I believe is already a given.
    But do we at district level know that county are going to get rid of the county levee on adults? Cos in theory, if they keep it, district might need to have a levee on adults too, to pay for the county levee on the district adults, or need to add more to the kids district levee for the same reason.

    Ian
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

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  13. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    But do we at district level know that county are going to get rid of the county levee on adults? Cos in theory, if they keep it, district might need to have a levee on adults too, to pay for the county levee on the district adults, or need to add more to the kids district levee for the same reason.

    Ian
    That is true although the amount is likely to be much smaller. So put pressure on your county to decide if they will charge AMS on adults or not. I suspect most counties and Districts will stop charging for adults.

    I can see some confusion and fur flying when some counties just say 'charge the same as last year', but then don't make it clear if they are charging for adults or not.

    They will be on a hiding to nothing if they try to charge Network members a county or district levy.
    Last edited by khoomei; 17-06-2015 at 04:01 PM.

  14. #41
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Really, I don't think they fully thought this through... How unusual...
    Ewan Scott

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Really, I don't think they fully thought this through... How unusual...
    Strange. That's most uncommon.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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  17. #43
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    It's not their money why should they worry they get an increase in membership (network) and through Adults.
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

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  18. #44
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    The move should be done more than a year ahead so everyone knows where they stand before the fin year starts and can collect the sums due over the year.

    We,ve currently got to pay £46 per head. Are County/district going to reduce their charge by at least £5 to match the suggested TSA increase mentioned in previous posts?

    Or are the parents .group to pay £50+ per head.

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    Sigh,,,, the intention is that the money collected by HQ is the same. As almost no adults (I'm not aware of any) pay AMS - their groups fund it from their YP payments or other income, so currently the YP pay their own and leader AMS.

    The only small delta is ASU who may raise funds to cover AMS and now will be funded by YP, but I doubt that will make much difference,

    So a typical group subs will remain about the same.

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