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Thread: Annual membership Fee 2016

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    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Annual membership Fee 2016

    Can't we work this out as a 'ballpark' figure?

    A, What was AMS for 2015?
    B, How many members paid it?
    C, A+B=Total AMS income.
    D, How many of B were YP?
    E, C/D
    F, = Good idea of 2016 AMS level.
    G, Assess it against the figure given by Wayne!

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    Escouts Team Bloory's Avatar
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    Yes, but an official figure would give counties and districts time to work out how much they are charging (some seem to sneak big changes) and get the info out sooner rather than later.
    Jonathan Bloor
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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    ............and as far as I am aware, Groups are not able to pay AMS for their members direct to Gilwell, even when they know the National Levy and are able to calculate the cost for the group.

    There will clearly be levies to be paid to District and Counties and these need to be known in advance so these can be challenged as necessary. One would expect these to be lower than in the past as there is no adult AMS so they don't need funds to cover this, but I have a suspicion that in many places, this will not be the case!
    Peter

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    Similar question of Wayne was asked here: https://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/thr...rship-Fee-2016

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    This is an interesting question!

    As I'm on the district exec, and as we have a meeting next week, I think I'll ask what we're doing our portion of the tithe.

    So, we currently get a district portion from all members in the district, next year we'll only get that from the young people, but on the other hand, won't have to pay for...whoever we pay for, me, DC, and a few others I guess. My gut says that means a net decrease in income if we don't increase our tithe on the young people's AMS.

    Worth flagging up, even if it only means it's on the agenda for the next meeting.

    Ian
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    Just because HQ have decided to only levy a fee for YP, does that necessarily mean that counties and districts must follow suit? (I think the answer to that is no, but in practice most will change).

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    Just because HQ have decided to only levy a fee for YP, does that necessarily mean that counties and districts must follow suit? (I think the answer to that is no, but in practice most will change).
    Our county (and I think district) only levy a fee on young people at the moment anyway.

    (the district fee is so small that I haven't noticed either way!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    Our county (and I think district) only levy a fee on young people at the moment anyway.

    (the district fee is so small that I haven't noticed either way!)
    I had not heard of anywhere doing that, but it confirms that counties and districts do not have to change their levy system at all.

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    Our county (and I think district) only levy a fee on young people at the moment anyway.

    (the district fee is so small that I haven't noticed either way!)
    Our District also does that as well. County levies on all members currently (and the levy is far too high for what we get out of County although still much lower than some)

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    Can't we work this out as a 'ballpark' figure?

    A, What was AMS for 2015?
    B, How many members paid it?
    C, A+B=Total AMS income.
    D, How many of B were YP?
    E, C/D
    F, = Good idea of 2016 AMS level.
    G, Assess it against the figure given by Wayne!
    A bit of simple arithmetic based on the 2014 Census results suggest to me that the HQ membership fee will change from £21 per member in 2015 to around £26 per youth member in 2016.
    Of course the not so simple arithmetic is how much adult membership fees contributed to the expenses of Counties and Districts and so how much their levies should be able to fall.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    2017-2018 AGSL

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    I would take the AMS for one year, add 10% and collect based on that. We always had a surplus.

    Fo remember, when people say that a Group, District or County only levy on YP, they are of course collecting AMS Levy to cover the AMS for all the adults they need to pay for.

    My adults did not pay AMS, but the Group set its own AMS at a level that covered all the adults. Now, with a reduction of, say, 20 adults, they could immediately cut AMS payment to District by £1280. If what I hear is correct, that would result in a reduction of £16 per head to the members today. So, the Group AMS Collected would drop considerably From £54 to £38.
    Ewan Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    ............and as far as I am aware, Groups are not able to pay AMS for their members direct to Gilwell, even when they know the National Levy and are able to calculate the cost for the group.

    There will clearly be levies to be paid to District and Counties and these need to be known in advance so these can be challenged as necessary. One would expect these to be lower than in the past as there is no adult AMS so they don't need funds to cover this, but I have a suspicion that in many places, this will not be the case!
    Probably won't quite work.

    Our county chair told us that as county will not have to pay for 100 people that the county levy may be able to be reduced accordingly. This quiet end quite a number of people, but they hadn't done the maths.

    100 people paying (or rather having paid for them) £21 a head amounts to £2,100. With a county of about 8000 it means that if county choose to reduce the levy it would be by 25p per member. They are unlikely to do that in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I would take the AMS for one year, add 10% and collect based on that. We always had a surplus.

    Fo remember, when people say that a Group, District or County only levy on YP, they are of course collecting AMS Levy to cover the AMS for all the adults they need to pay for.

    My adults did not pay AMS, but the Group set its own AMS at a level that covered all the adults. Now, with a reduction of, say, 20 adults, they could immediately cut AMS payment to District by £1280. If what I hear is correct, that would result in a reduction of £16 per head to the members today. So, the Group AMS Collected would drop considerably From £54 to £38.


    But that won't happen Ewan as HQ need to collect the same amount just shared amongst the yp rather than yp and adults. So if there are 500,000 members paying £21 one year giving a total of AMS of £10500000, the next year if there are 100,000 adults the AMS will be collected from 400,000 youth members. So £26.25 a head. An increase of £5.25.

    So there will be winners and losers. If your group has 60 kids and 20 adults in one year you would pay £1680 and the next £1575 so this group will pay less.. Another group have 100 kids and 15 adults in year one pay £2415, in year two they pay £2625 so are paying more. It will benefit groups with currently a lot of adults and few kids.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Dave, you miss my point. Where Groups ( let's start there) paid the AMS of the adult members, they by default put a Group levy on the youth membership ( one way or another). So for those groups little should change.

    Equally, Districts often put a levy on Groups, to pay the membership ( and other stuff) at District level, and so on.

    I was just highlighting that where adults have not paid their own AMS, then the payment by members should remain the same. ( I rather naughtily used the example of the loss of so many adults at a Group to highlight the "load" placed on the membership and how the reduction in adults could actually make Scouting cheaper for them.)
    Ewan Scott

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    My adults did not pay AMS, but the Group set its own AMS at a level that covered all the adults. Now, with a reduction of, say, 20 adults, they could immediately cut AMS payment to District by £1280. If what I hear is correct, that would result in a reduction of £16 per head to the members today. So, the Group AMS Collected would drop considerably From £54 to £38.
    Our group currently pays the AMS for all its members - young people and adults.

    We charge a termly subscription to the Beavers, Cubs and Scouts - we do not charge young leaders or adults. Part of that money goes, each spring, to pay the AMS for all our members.

    We have never worked out the element of each individual's subs that goes towards AMS (i imagine it is roughly 1/3) or for that matter how much of each individual's subs goes on sectional budget (at a ballpark figure it's 12 per head per year) or on the hall, or on badges, or on leader training. I could however tell you how much of our annual group budget is set for each of these things.

    How each group will be affected will vary depending on their adult to child ratio... for a group that meets the HQ "Average", assuming counties and districts drop their AMS accordingly to reflect that they no longer have to pay for County and District volunteers, the total cost should remain the same.

    If a group has less volunteers than average, they will suffer financially

    If a group has more volunteers than average they will gain financially

    I would expect to see a rise in the number of adult volunteers becoming members (and indeed I assume this is the reason behind it). There is now far less reason for exec members, helpers, etc not to become full members of the association where in the past they might have been associate members or non-members. Coupled with the removal on the bar of adults with an absence of religion, and the new promise options, there really is no reason for any adult helping in any capacity with Scouting not to be registered and become a member.

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