Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 165

Thread: Section Ratios (Renamed from Cub Ratios)

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    1,018
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 86 Times in 44 Posts

    Section Ratios (Renamed from Cub Ratios)

    The Current "Your Programme, Your Voice" survey includes a proposal to increase the number of adults required for normal Pack Nights from a minimum of 2 to a ratio of 1:8 plus one - making a minimum of 4 adults required at every meeting for a Pack of 24 Cubs.

    Apparently the reason for this is to make the rules simpler to understand (all activities effectively have the the same ratios)

    Should prove interesting if it's adopted!
    Kate, CSL (and GDB(S))
    1st Weald Brook Scout Group
    Brentwood, Essex
    www.1stwealdbrook.org.uk

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Yellow Beaver For This Useful Post:

    Dave1964 (22-06-2015),scoutgamer (22-06-2015)

  3. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    336
    Thanks
    260
    Thanked 147 Times in 73 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Beaver View Post
    The Current "Your Programme, Your Voice" survey includes a proposal to increase the number of adults required for normal Pack Nights from a minimum of 2 to a ratio of 1:8 plus one - making a minimum of 4 adults required at every meeting for a Pack of 24 Cubs.

    Apparently the reason for this is to make the rules simpler to understand (all activities effectively have the the same ratios)

    Should prove interesting if it's adopted!
    Can you please post a link to where you have seen this, so we can read the proposal, just had a quick look at "Your Programme, Your Voice" at
    link

    and could not see any reference to the information in your post ???

  4. #3
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Bracknell, Berkshire
    Posts
    4,501
    Thanks
    1,500
    Thanked 887 Times in 563 Posts
    Interesting is not the word I would use! . I suspect that if this comes to fruition, it will make the operation for some packs virtually impossible (including one of our own).

    The current ratio of 1:8 +1 is, in any event, only a "recommended" ratio, so it is hoped that the same would apply here.

    I think that whoever put up these proposals has perhaps spent too long reading the posts over on 1st FB!

    Right off to complete the survey!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 1stupton View Post
    Can you please post a link to where you have seen this, so we can read the proposal, just had a quick look at "Your Programme, Your Voice" at
    link

    and could not see any reference to the information in your post ???
    You have to start the survey which gets to the page with these proposals and this is the blurb at the top of that page:

    Based on feedback that we have received about the clarity of the section ratio rules, we are working on updating them to make them easier to use and apply, and better cover all programme situations.

    In summary the current requirements for Cubs are:
    Regular indoor Pack meetings: Minimum of 2 adults present (must)
    Outdoor activities held away from the usual meeting place: 1 adult to 8 Cubs plus the leader in charge (recommended minimum).
    Nights away experiences: 1 adult to 8 Cubs plus the leader in charge (recommended minimum). Minimum of 2 adults present overnight (must).

    In summary the proposed requirements for Cubs are:
    All Pack meetings and activities: 1 adult to 8 Cubs plus the leader in charge (recommended minimum).
    Nights away experiences: 1 adult to 8 Cubs plus the leader in charge (recommended minimum). Minimum of 2 adults present overnight (must).
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to BigBadBaloo For This Useful Post:

    1stupton (20-06-2015)

  6. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,404
    Thanks
    143
    Thanked 682 Times in 400 Posts
    To be fair they are at least asking us before dropping this like a bombshell!

    In our case the implications are quite significant. 18 cubs at present, 2 leaders and a section assistant. Come September we will lose 4 cubs and the SA (his son will move up to Scouts and whilst I will try to persuade him that he enjoys spending evening lighting fires and stuff my expectations aren't great!). I know I've got at least 3 Beavers coming my way (some will go to our other pack which is in the same boat numbers and leaders wise). So I'll be 17+ cubs and 2 leaders which is in breach of the new proposed rules. To be fair I'd rather not run with only 2 leaders anyway but if we can only take 8 cubs between 2 of us it will be time to pack up and find something else to do.

  7. #5
    Member Trevor Yeoman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    52
    Thanks
    118
    Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
    Will make life difficult for us when we are at our max of 36 Cubs... Do these people really think of the implications...

  8. #6
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Bracknell, Berkshire
    Posts
    4,501
    Thanks
    1,500
    Thanked 887 Times in 563 Posts
    TSA have sought views before, but that hasn't necessarily meant they have listened to them! All too often "proposals" find their way into POR despite what, anecdotally, leaders in the front-line think. .

    IMO, this will have implications for many packs. Consider the situation - you have 21 Cubs with 4 due to move up from Beavers and you have four adults at pack meetings in line with the proposed "recommended" ratios. Do you a) accept all four without an additional adult (and go against the "recommendation"), b) accept three because that is within the ratio (this perhaps depriving a yp of further Scouting), or c) accept all four and find another adult and meet the ratio (despite the fact that in just about all scenarios four leaders would be able to deal with 25 Cubs just as well as with 25)?

    The current rules are clear and unambiguous. This proposal, again imo, will introduce confusion and uncertainty and has been poorly thought through (and I said as much in my response to the survey).
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  9. #7
    Senior Member dasy2k1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    2,095
    Thanks
    137
    Thanked 207 Times in 146 Posts
    It would effectively mean us showing over half our cubs the door, we currently have 3 leaders on most pack nights but not always the case (if one of us can't make it for whatever reason) but we have just shy of 30 cubs on the books with most meetings running at around the 20 mark, we are moving some up at the summer break but even then with the rate of newbies starting we will quickly be up to tht number again....

    So if we can only keep 16 and have to cancel the meeting if one of us can't make it or magically pull an extra 2 preferably 3 leaders out of a hat!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ACSL (Bagheera)
    74th Birmingham St Germains
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  10. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    10
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    I have left feed back that I think the proposals to strict. We currently run a pack 24 with 2 or 3 adults, plus to very competent young leaders (16 year olds). With the new restrictions that would mean that we had one person are over for every 3 or 4 cubs. I am sure this would lead to ether the young leaders or the adults feeling like spare parts and leaving the movement!

    These ratios are great at this time of year when we are out and about a lot. But in the HQ in December every week. A bit over kill I think!

  11. #9
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    'auchtermuchty'
    Posts
    7,660
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 1,750 Times in 1,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Beaver View Post
    The Current "Your Programme, Your Voice" survey includes a proposal to increase the number of adults required for normal Pack Nights from a minimum of 2 to a ratio of 1:8 plus one - making a minimum of 4 adults required at every meeting for a Pack of 24 Cubs.

    Apparently the reason for this is to make the rules simpler to understand (all activities effectively have the the same ratios)

    Should prove interesting if it's adopted!
    this is a positve step forward for our meetings and maybe we should make the ratio actually 1:4 +1 or maybe +2.

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  12. #10
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks
    1,530
    Thanked 890 Times in 549 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    this is a positve step forward for our meetings and maybe we should make the ratio actually 1:4 +1 or maybe +2.

    TM
    I hope your joking TM - This new proposal would have a serious effect or very many packs
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

    NSRA Air Rifle instructor
    GNAS Archery Instructor
    County Archery Assessor
    Radio Amateur (G8XAN)

  13. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    3,041
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 196 Times in 143 Posts

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    this is a positve step forward for our meetings and maybe we should make the ratio actually 1:4 +1 or maybe +2.

    TM
    No, surely to be able to treat everyone as an individual and get the best from them and tailor their needs we actually need 1:1 plus one.

  14. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    795
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 130 Times in 64 Posts
    1:8+1? With a pack size of 32 would that be 4 Adults and the Leader in charge bringing the required leader team upto at least 5 Adults (over 18's) ?

  15. #13
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    'auchtermuchty'
    Posts
    7,660
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 1,750 Times in 1,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by roger-uk View Post
    i hope your joking tm - this new proposal would have a serious effect or very many packs
    no i am not joking!

    Tm

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    No, surely to be able to treat everyone as an individual and get the best from them and tailor their needs we actually need 1:1 plus one.
    I WAS BEING SERIOUS NOT FLIPPANT

    TM

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    1:8+1? With a pack size of 32 would that be 4 Adults and the Leader in charge bringing the required leader team upto at least 5 Adults (over 18's) ?
    and a pack of 36 cubs would require 6 adults.

    so?

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  16. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    795
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 130 Times in 64 Posts
    If this comes in and is enforced then the only thing that would happen is that the Cub section membership would drop, which in turn would have an effect on the inflow into Scouts, and then onwards to Explorers.
    Still if HQ want to reduce their membership and have fewer YP involved in Scouting then this is one way to do it - at the same time it will also increase the waiting lists so it could be spun out as Scouting is more popular than ever as waiting lists grow across the country

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Richard T For This Useful Post:

    shiftypete (21-06-2015)

  18. #15
    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,637
    Thanks
    905
    Thanked 413 Times in 255 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post

    and a pack of 36 cubs would require 6 adults.

    so?

    TM

    What advantage do you think that will bring?

Similar Threads

  1. Scout Ratios
    By wealdbrook in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20-06-2015, 12:54 PM
  2. Ratios
    By Testarossa in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 03-04-2014, 10:48 PM
  3. [Answered] Change to Scout Section ratios
    By Neil Williams in forum UK Chief Commissioner Questions (CLOSED)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 26-09-2012, 11:32 AM
  4. Change to Scout Section ratios
    By gregharewood in forum Related Discussion UK Chief Commissioner Questions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 24-09-2012, 08:38 AM
  5. ratios at camp
    By notgonehome in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 11-06-2010, 11:10 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •