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Thread: AMS 2016 and new rules for ECs

  1. #16
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pstretch View Post
    The benefit of membership (scouting magazine, service awards, emails from HQ, insurance, feeling that you are a full part of the team, etc) outweigh the cost. Saving the £30 is missing the bigger picture, undervaluing volunteers and not building a strong team.
    You may think so, others may disagree.

    I can't remember the last time I opened Scouting magazine, and as for emails from HQ! I have seen reported elsewhere recently that even those members that should be getting them are not so I don't set much store that the members on the exec will get them. We have a very full and active exec. all of whom are very much part of the team, some of whom are full members, some are associates and some are not members and I don't think we are missing the bigger picture.

    I suspect are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.¯ Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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  3. #17
    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    I can't remember the last time I opened Scouting magazine, and as for emails from HQ!
    But that's your choice as to whether to engage with comms from HQ.

    Shouldn't all members have that choice if there's no cost to themselves or the group?

    No matter how "full and active" your exec is it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they are still only being fed what is deemed relevant by others - including some, by your admission, that don't even open emails or magazines!
    Mark Pullen
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    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

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  5. #18
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    But that's your choice as to whether to engage with comms from HQ.

    Shouldn't all members have that choice if there's no cost to themselves or the group?

    No matter how "full and active" your exec is it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they are still only being fed what is deemed relevant by others - including some, by your admission, that don't even open emails or magazines!
    That may all be so, but the point you may have missed in my post is that some choose not to be members (and I wouldn't call Scouting magazine, at least the last time I looked, "comms from HQ" - given your user name you may view it differently).

    And I don't "feed" the exec anything, as I don't serve on the exec.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.¯ Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    That may all be so, but the point you may have missed in my post is that some choose not to be members....
    That choice is now being removed it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    ...(and I wouldn't call Scouting magazine, at least the last time I looked, "comms from HQ" - given your user name you may view it differently).
    So are you saying that Scouting magazine isn't a comms tool created by HQ?

    Though obviously that observation would be made through a sealed packet .... shame you don't opt out receiving it if you find it too much hassle to open the cover.

    Here's a thought - why not pass the copy to exec members to have a look through .... you never know they might appreciate the gesture.

    And I'm sure you're not really big and bad .... I always see you as a pussycat!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    And I don't "feed" the exec anything, as I don't serve on the exec.
    I always find it a shame when the leaders (section or otherwise) don't interact and support exec members .... just shows how groups differ.

    And talking about usernames - I'm sure you're not really big and bad .... I always see you as a pussycat!
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
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    Formerly:
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    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  7. #20
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Please read the words that I write, rather than being quite so selective and don't put words into my fingers! I didn't say that I don't interact and support the exec. I said: ".............. I don't serve on the exec.", which is not the same thing.

    Anyway, this discussion isn't going anywhere so, as they say on DD, I'm out!
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.¯ Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  8. #21
    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Please read the words that I write, rather than being quite so selective and don't put words into my fingers! I didn't say that I don't interact and support the exec. I said: ".............. I don't serve on the exec.", which is not the same thing.
    Don't serve on the exec .... don't read HQ emails .... don't open Scouting magazine ....

    You stated that you don't "feed" the exec anything and therefore totally fair to assume you starve them!

    Not sure where I've misinterpreted your actions and it seems fair to assume you're comfortable with the stance .... I couldn't, and didn't, operate like that in a section leader role.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Anyway, this discussion isn't going anywhere so, as they say on DD, I'm out!
    Didn't even realise you were ever "in" but so long
    Last edited by mediamanager; 17-07-2015 at 01:58 PM.
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  9. #22
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Mark, I know I said I wouldn't but there you go again! I am not sure if it is me or you being obtuse, but where exactly did I say I " .... don't read HQ emails .... "?

    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    .... I couldn't, and didn't, operate like that in a section leader role..................
    Nice! Congratulations and well done to you.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.¯ Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Mark, I know I said I wouldn't but there you go again!
    Welcome back .... that was quicker than anticipated!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    I am not sure if it is me or you being obtuse, but where exactly did I say I " .... don't read HQ emails .... "?.
    "I can't remember the last time I opened Scouting magazine, and as for emails from HQ!"

    You didn't leave it hanging and were talking about not opening Scouting mag.

    Apologies if this wasn't what you inferred.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Nice! Congratulations and well done to you.
    Thanks :-)
    Last edited by mediamanager; 17-07-2015 at 02:14 PM.
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  11. #24
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    Now there is no fee for it, and the religious barrier has been removed, why would anyone actively in Scouting *not* want to be a Member?

  12. #25
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    Because Neil, at present being a member is not just a case of filling in a form and not paying your membership fee, you have to do the training which for an older person helping out on an Exec as their last phase of their Scouting life is borderline insulting to require.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Now there is no fee for it, and the religious barrier has been removed, why would anyone actively in Scouting *not* want to be a Member?
    Some people like reading books but don't join the local library even though it's free and offers them what they want.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    Because Neil, at present being a member is not just a case of filling in a form and not paying your membership fee, you have to do the training which for an older person helping out on an Exec as their last phase of their Scouting life is borderline insulting to require.
    Surely "helping out on an exec" shouldn't be seen as the option for an "older person" in their "last phase of their Scouting life" ?!?!?!

    The movement needs people who are engaged and enthusiastic with their role and keen to carry out the tasks assigned to it - If this involves an element of training then so be it.

    I've encountered many people who have served the association well across numerous roles but have a lack of understanding or awareness of current policy or direction.

    Is this appropriate as a trustee or any role?

    This post really does worry me that execs exist with members who are seen to be there as the other options don't exist .... no wonder the movement struggles sometimes
    Last edited by mediamanager; 17-07-2015 at 02:21 PM.
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

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  15. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    Because Neil, at present being a member is not just a case of filling in a form and not paying your membership fee, you have to do the training which for an older person helping out on an Exec as their last phase of their Scouting life is borderline insulting to require.
    It takes all of a couple of hours to do modules 1 and 3 online.

    (Yes, they might not have a PC, but it's not exactly difficult for a Group to arrange it)

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    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    We're going off thread but what qualities do we want in our trustees?

    Are execs meant to be the final resting place for former leaders? There experience is valuable but isn't that best linked to the programme rather than stewardship?

    If anybody refuses to undertake ongoing learning or training appropriate for the role then I would question their commitment and consider reassigning them to a role that better suits their stance.
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  17. #29
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    Don't know about in West Yorkshire but round here we aren't so flush with volunteers that we can afford to turn away experienced Treasurers with a lifetime around Scouting just because some bright young thing has decided they need to do a noddy online training module and get it signed off in order to be able to carry on.

    I'm all in favour of ensuring we maintain quality - I'm not ever going to be in favour of putting obstacles in the way of people offering to help out just to meaninglessly tick a box somewhere - which is what in the case I'm thinking of, requiring our Treasurer to do mods 1 and 3 would amount to. She is not going to be any better equipped after sitting through them and wasting an evening getting them assessed and signed off than she is now.

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    Don't know about in West Yorkshire but round here we aren't so flush with volunteers that we can afford to turn away experienced Treasurers with a lifetime around Scouting just because some bright young thing has decided they need to do a noddy online training module and get it signed off in order to be able to carry on.

    I'm all in favour of ensuring we maintain quality - I'm not ever going to be in favour of putting obstacles in the way of people offering to help out just to meaninglessly tick a box somewhere - which is what in the case I'm thinking of, requiring our Treasurer to do mods 1 and 3 would amount to. She is not going to be any better equipped after sitting through them and wasting an evening getting them assessed and signed off than she is now.
    Which is another way of saying what TM said in the OP.

    Does this change render Mod 1 unfit for purpose (since the change alters the purpose of Mod1). Possibly a question for Wayne?

    If of course the change will also alter the rules so that only "leaders/managers" still have the training requirment, not all members, or if Mod 1 is going to be restructured so that it's useful for just exec members, then this whole argument becomes moot.

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