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Thread: AMS 2016 and new rules for ECs

  1. #31
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    ........"I can't remember the last time I opened Scouting magazine, and as for emails from HQ!"
    Not sure if it is me not being quite clear in what I write or the reader not reading/understanding what is written or the respondent being selective with quotes. Just to be crystal clear, I do read every email that I happen receive from HQ, County, etc. etc.

    The point I was trying to make, rather badly it would seem is that, anecdotally, some roles are not receiving mass circulation emails from HQ that they should for their role.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


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  2. #32
    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    Don't know about in West Yorkshire but round here we aren't so flush with volunteers that we can afford to turn away experienced Treasurers with a lifetime around Scouting just because some bright young thing has decided they need to do a noddy online training module and get it signed off in order to be able to carry on.

    I'm all in favour of ensuring we maintain quality - I'm not ever going to be in favour of putting obstacles in the way of people offering to help out just to meaninglessly tick a box somewhere - which is what in the case I'm thinking of, requiring our Treasurer to do mods 1 and 3 would amount to. She is not going to be any better equipped after sitting through them and wasting an evening getting them assessed and signed off than she is now.
    If an "experienced treasurer" was looking after the money in a group I was involved in I would hope that they recognised the reasons for being a member / associate member of Scouting and the commitment in involved ..... but then I'm from West Yorkshire and I must be bucking the trend expecting a certain level of training from volunteers.

    I'm sure HQ appreciate a Scouter seeing their training as "noddy" .... there's no hope for volunteers with a lifetime of experience now (though they will remember Noddy!)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Not sure if it is me not being quite clear in what I write or the reader not reading/understanding what is written or the respondent being selective with quotes. Just to be crystal clear, I do read every email that I happen receive from HQ, County, etc. etc.

    The point I was trying to make, rather badly it would seem is that, anecdotally, some roles are not receiving mass circulation emails from HQ that they should for their role.
    Not what you wrote (and I quoted) so apology accepted

    Some people elect not to receive HQ emails.
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pstretch View Post
    The benefit of membership (scouting magazine, service awards, emails from HQ, insurance, feeling that you are a full part of the team, etc) outweigh the cost. Saving the £30 is missing the bigger picture, undervaluing volunteers and not building a strong team.
    Under both mms and compass there was no way of HQ knowing whether an exec member was a member , associate or non member.

    As such they got Scouting Mag, Awards emails from HQ etc without it costing anything. The only thing they didn't have was insurance unless a group took it out.

    Paying £30 isn't just the picture though is it. If the committee is 10 strong it is £300. So they need to raise that before the group benefits.

    That said we did pay for those that were active with the group in more than attending exec meetings etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevynxxx View Post
    There's a part of me wondering if anyone at HQ actually made the link that making them members by default forces Module 1. It's pretty easy to miss.
    Yes HQ made the link. A version of Module 1 specifically for Executive Committee Members will be launched in January 2016 and will include all essential information that new Executive Committee members will need to know. This will include a new e-learning package.

    Byron

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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    Yes HQ made the link. A version of Module 1 specifically for Executive Committee Members will be launched in January 2016 and will include all essential information that new Executive Committee members will need to know. This will include a new e-learning package.

    Byron
    good to know as it solves a number of concerns - are we yet at the stage where it can be "e-signed-off" as well?

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    Sorry don't know the answer to that one. Happy to answer questions about the changes to AMS though

    I should have said in my previous post that I have chaired the group reporting to the Board that is responsible for implementing the changes.

    Also heading to Japan soon though, so replies may be delayed!

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  10. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    Sorry don't know the answer to that one. Happy to answer questions about the changes to AMS though

    I should have said in my previous post that I have chaired the group reporting to the Board that is responsible for implementing the changes.

    Also heading to Japan soon though, so replies may be delayed!
    You may regret admitting that

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  12. #38
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    Regardless of the nature of this change, it'll be seen as a barrier (even if it isn't.)

    So much of this new activity seems to be either TSA covering its own back or someone's corporate wet dream. Its hard enough getting people to pitch in without yet more bureaucracy getting in the way (which is always seen as a bogeyman.) The mass-formalisation that's going on is a drain and works against the goodwill that comes with people who are prepared to volunteer.

    Its an interesting quandary; the Scout Association wants to be seen as a professional organisation offering youth services (basically) - so its doing all it can to raise standards with a formalised (mandatory) training scheme for all volunteers. Putting aside the child safety aspect which is a given, a lot of people are put off by things like 'mandatory training' - it just seems like work.

    I think many groups will quietly ignore this.

    (I do occasionally read the Scout Magazine, sometimes they have useful ideas inside. The emails... Meh...)

    ;-)

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    Or providing training can be seen as being supportive, providing clarity about what is expected of you and presenting a professional organisation worth being a part of.

    As GSL module 1 was always an enjoyable evening at my house with a bottle of wine and a social chat with other new volunteers. Training doesn't have to be a chore

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  15. #40
    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I think many groups will quietly ignore this.
    Like many other aspects that is expected of them since Scouting started

    We have an organisational issue, in probably the majority of groups/districts, in that we are required to have trustees and yet a) we don't know how to recruit them, b) we don't explain to them what is required, and c) we don't operate the executive committee in the way in which it is meant to be.

    In an earlier post it was mentioned/inferred that we don't have surplus volunteers and so have to accept those at the tail end of their Scouting and/or those who have been in post for a length of time .... in both cases it could be seen as acceptable to allow them to be "let off" training.

    I would say that this should be discouraged and other options considered .... including the sharing of trustees locally.

    We often hear of leaders who have multiple roles in the movement so why not share a good chair, secretary, or treasurer? In local politics the clerk is often covering a number of parish councils.

    Some people just love the opportunity to attend a meeting and being on the committee for 2-3 local groups will support them in numerous ways.

    Scouting is insular - groups are regularly parochial and fail to consider the bigger picture ..... this needs to change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    Or providing training can be seen as being supportive, providing clarity about what is expected of you and presenting a professional organisation worth being a part of.

    As GSL module 1 was always an enjoyable evening at my house with a bottle of wine and a social chat with other new volunteers. Training doesn't have to be a chore
    Some members of the movement like to create barriers from opportunities .... it's in our nature!
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

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  17. #41
    Senior Member Hathi_Cambridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Some members of the movement like to create barriers from opportunities .... it's in our nature!
    And some people like to produce barriers and announce them as opportunities.


    FWIW I think the new training module could be an opportunity to improve the help given to groups by their trustees, while the requirement to complete this training may prove a barrier to retention of some trustees, I would certaily prefer to see it as optional.

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    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hathi_Cambridge View Post
    And some people like to produce barriers and announce them as opportunities.

    FWIW I think the new training module could be an opportunity to improve the help given to groups by their trustees, while the requirement to complete this training may prove a barrier to retention of some trustees, I would certaily prefer to see it as optional.
    Ensuring an understanding of the movement through a relatively short training session which could be in a socially acceptable environment would really have to be manipulated to make it a barrier .... but some in Scouting like to buck against any initiatives.

    Allowing it to be optional could create two tiers of trustees when, in practice, they are all equal.

    Maybe the short term worry about losing veterans within some groups blinkers people to the longer term benefit?
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  19. #43
    Senior Member Hathi_Cambridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Ensuring an understanding of the movement through a relatively short training session which could be in a socially acceptable environment would really have to be manipulated to make it a barrier .... but some in Scouting like to buck against any initiatives.

    Allowing it to be optional could create two tiers of trustees when, in practice, they are all equal.

    Maybe the short term worry about losing veterans within some groups blinkers people to the longer term benefit?
    I would rather see a group struggle on, not offering the best Scouting experience (ideally with support offered to improve this), than force the group to close and use the support to create a new group. My belief is this gives the Scouting experience to the maximum number of people.


    That's my take on this point, carried to the limiting case. If, as I think, you are taking the opposing view on this then I'll agree to differ. If your argument is more convoluted then feel free to restate it and you may persuade me to change. Good luck with that though

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  21. #44
    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    Whilst I think training for Exec members is a good idea, I'm not sure in practice how well this will work. Our neighbouring District ran a training session recently but I could not get any of my Exec to attend.

    Is there not a problem in that being an Exec member can be a short term commitment as they are voted in the AGM every year so might only be a 1 year appointment for many (officers tend to serve longer)?
    In between roles/helping out where I can......

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Ensuring an understanding of the movement through a relatively short training session which could be in a socially acceptable environment would really have to be manipulated to make it a barrier .... but some in Scouting like to buck against any initiatives.

    Allowing it to be optional could create two tiers of trustees when, in practice, they are all equal.

    Maybe the short term worry about losing veterans within some groups blinkers people to the longer term benefit?

    The relatively short traning session in Module 1 does not , in any real way give an understanding that they would not have had anyway. And, is rather pointless. I would rather they did a mandatory module on Trusteeship, which most would appreciate. Treasurers in particular should be reminded of their role in terms of Scout and Charity rules, as enev ccountants often don't get that correct.

    I agree though, a single level of trustees is required.

    I would have empathy with someone not wanting to do the current Module 1 - But I also think that if someone leaves fo the sake of a hlaf hour module that can be done on a meeting night, then they wanted out anyway.
    Ewan Scott

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