Page 1 of 13 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 192

Thread: AMS 2016 and new rules for ECs

  1. #1
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    'auchtermuchty'
    Posts
    7,661
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 1,751 Times in 1,055 Posts

    AMS 2016 and new rules for ECs

    Another aspect of the Annual Membership Subscription (AMS) 2016 changes which seems to have slipped in under the radar of discussion (so far) are the rule changes to Executive Committees, some of which will, I daresay, have an impact.

    From the first AGM after 1st January 2016, all members of Executive Committees are required to become members or associate members. Currently there is no obligation on Executive Committee members to take up membership or associate membership, unless it is required because they hold a leader, a manger or supporter role too. Some scout groups, such as mine, encourage the officers of the Group Executive Committee (GEC) to take up associate membership and we are happy to sponsor the AMS for these roles. We do not currently encourage other GEC members to take up associate membership unless they wish and, if they did, would happily sponsor their AMS.

    I don’t expect there will be much impact on DECs and CECs where most people are likely to hold at least associate membership or membership through an existing leader, manager or supporter role. However, at group level the same cannot be said, methinks.

    Given the undoubted ‘confusion’ that appears when questions about GEC structures crop up every now and then, it will not be surprising if this rule change doesn’t catch out a few GECs. It is well-known that a number of groups seemingly operate a two-tier GEC set-up or structure believing that it’s only the officers – chairman, secretary and treasurer – who are GEC members and charity trustees, while the other ‘members’ are just members of the scout council in support or not full GEC members or in some other state of limbo. Witness how many registered charity scout groups list only three names on their trustee register. Note also how many groups appoint parent representatives to the group council or the so-called ‘parents committee’ but not to the ‘full-blown’ GEC.

    It will require better and more accurate records of GEC membership, which some groups struggle to keep as it is already. Notice how some trustee registers of registered charity scout groups never seem to change over a few years. Some groups do get confused between managing/charity trustees (members of the GEC) and custodian/holding trustees (who oversee the trusts on which the group’s property are held), and list the custodian trustees.

    Furthermore, with the compulsion of membership or associate membership will also be the obligation to complete training; completion of module 1 (within the 5 month provisional period) will be required by all committee members, if not already completed.

    It will be interesting to see an upgraded module 1 aimed at EC members. A a number of people on GECs seem woefully ignorant or unprepared to meet the responsibilities of the role. Hopefully in the future no one will need to ask what are my responsibilities or what do I need to know?

    These are mandatory requirements from next year so failure to complete will mean loss of GEC membership.

    Of course as there will be no financial ‘penalty’ because of the removal of AMS from adults members and associate members, there should be no barrier to registering all GEC members. Furthermore, seeing as the last AMS for adults has now passed there should be nothing stopping you registering all your GEC members now rather than waiting until after your 2016 AGM, especially if you know that they are likely to still be in position next year. Even if they’re not, it’s still worth doing to take advantage of the higher level of insurance, scouting magazine, a qualifying service record, and access to training, among others, between now and next year. An advantage that is now free.

    Interestingly, with the adult information form and change of role form supposedly no longer being in use and ‘you-know-what’ still out of reach of many, I wonder where future GEC members will make the trustee declaration. (Actually I recall reading somewhere that it says that new members should be recorded using the Adult Information Form. Mixed messages???)

    All my current GEC members are recorded and have gone through personal enquiry. Just two are not currently associate members or members but I will be making them so over the next month or two.

    Any GEC member who wishes to take up full membership will also have to affirm The Promise.

    These new rules will catch out more than a few groups!

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  2. #2
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Leeds
    Posts
    12,444
    Thanks
    3,622
    Thanked 1,210 Times in 802 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    Interestingly, with the adult information form and change of role form supposedly no longer being in use
    What? Since when?

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Huddersfield
    Posts
    15,710
    Thanks
    431
    Thanked 2,968 Times in 1,616 Posts
    All my Exec members were associate members, and they were all DBS checked because they were closely involved with the Group and its activities.

    I think all bar one had done Module one.

    Ahead of the game for once :-)
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

  4. #4
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    'auchtermuchty'
    Posts
    7,661
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 1,751 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    What? Since when?
    i use the words supposedly and seemingly.

    have now found the 'offending' document here: https://members.scouts.org.uk/suppor...94&moduleID=10

    FAQ, 3rd question down, 2nd paragraph it says:

    'Membership types may have been recorded on the application form the member filled in when they took on their role; either the current Adult Information form, the Adult Application form or the Change of Role form. (The Adult Information form and Change of role form are no longer in use.) However, there is currently no facility to record this on Compass, the Scouts membership database, and neither was there on the previous membership database, and we suggest that local records are kept on membership types. A future enhancement to Compass will allow this information to be recorded.'

    however, the penultimate FAQ, 2nd paragraph says:

    'New Executive Committee Members or existing members who are not currently on Compass should fill in the Adult Information form, or they can be added directly to Compass by the relevant person locally.'

    hence why i also used the word confusingly!

    i suspect in the first instance the writer meant to say Adult Application form (AA).

    somewhere in the associate membership/membership application process for GEC members there has to be a record of them making the trustee declaration as this is required by charity law.

    as i said, i suspect it's someone who continues to use 'AA form' instead of 'AI form' simply because the former has had time to enter into the scouting vernacular and is now commonplace (cf 'warrant' and 'appointment')

    it's careless.

    TM

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    All my Exec members were associate members, and they were all DBS checked because they were closely involved with the Group and its activities.
    currently the former is optional, the latter is mandatory.

    I think all bar one had done Module one.

    Ahead of the game for once :-)
    you are a rarity!



    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    10,008
    Thanks
    2,675
    Thanked 2,006 Times in 1,268 Posts
    Unless in a District/County with local rules it takes half an hour to complete Module 1 online. I hardly think that is much of a barrier to anything

    Neil

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Neil Williams For This Useful Post:

    mediamanager (17-07-2015)

  7. #6
    Group Scout Leader
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Stanstead Abbotts, Hertfordshire
    Posts
    641
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 222 Times in 126 Posts
    I too noticed these changes buried the additional information and FAQ documents appended to the announcement letter.

    All of our GEC members are TSA members so this won’t cause us any issues, although I guessed that some Groups would be caught out by it. I’ve never understood why some Groups keep their GEC members as non-members. If they’re not worth the £30 AMS then they really shouldn’t be in the role.

  8. #7
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Bracknell, Berkshire
    Posts
    4,510
    Thanks
    1,508
    Thanked 893 Times in 567 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pstretch View Post
    I too noticed these changes buried the additional information and FAQ documents appended to the announcement letter.

    All of our GEC members are TSA members so this won’t cause us any issues, although I guessed that some Groups would be caught out by it. I’ve never understood why some Groups keep their GEC members as non-members. If they’re not worth the £30 AMS then they really shouldn’t be in the role.
    Equally, I have never understood why some Groups pay out group funds unnecessarily.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.¯ Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

  9. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to BigBadBaloo For This Useful Post:

    Matt Donnelly (17-07-2015),merryweather (17-07-2015),PaulArthurs (17-07-2015),shiftypete (17-07-2015)

  10. #8
    CSL (In training)
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    2,058
    Thanked 584 Times in 431 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Unless in a District/County with local rules it takes half an hour to complete Module 1 online. I hardly think that is much of a barrier to anything

    Neil
    Of course that requires letting someone know that they *need* to do the training.... That's probably the biggest barrier I can think of.

  11. #9
    Group Scout Leader
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,095
    Thanks
    691
    Thanked 429 Times in 229 Posts
    I presume that we are all yet to see this consultation on a change to POR. The information published here seems to assume that the consultation process will conclude that it is a good idea to make this change.

    Someone (not me, of course!) may suggest that one of the reasons for this is to help show an increase in adult membership.

    Cynic Paul

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to PaulArthurs For This Useful Post:

    BigBadBaloo (17-07-2015)

  13. #10
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    6,653
    Thanks
    1,530
    Thanked 890 Times in 549 Posts
    No more than making all 18 to 25 year old members of network will increase the youth membership.

    There are lies, damn lies and statistics
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

    NSRA Air Rifle instructor
    GNAS Archery Instructor
    County Archery Assessor
    Radio Amateur (G8XAN)

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to roger-uk For This Useful Post:

    BigBadBaloo (17-07-2015)

  15. #11
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    'auchtermuchty'
    Posts
    7,661
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 1,751 Times in 1,055 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Unless in a District/County with local rules it takes half an hour to complete Module 1 online. I hardly think that is much of a barrier to anything

    Neil
    yes module 1 can be completed in a relatively short e-learning session and some districts include it in an induction evening.

    however, if we look at the current components of module 1 (iirc): fundamentals of scouting; structures; support systems; safeguarding; and, safety one should appreciate that this 'essential information' is particularly tuned to adult leaders, managers and supporters and not GEC members.

    anyone who takes on responsibility for the induction of a new GEC member really has to ensure the inductee is made aware of their role and responsibilities. as ewan, others and i keep banging on about this really must include a basic knowledge of POR (especially chapter 3), not just knowing that POR euphemistically stands for press on regardless, and charity commission circular CC3: the essential trustee.

    given that completion of module 1 will be mandatory for all GEC members, not just leaders, managers and supporters, it suggests that the current module 1 will require redesigning to incorporate a much stronger element of the role of GEC members (along the lines of CC3 maybe or even linking to it?) there may even be optional elements introduced depending on one's role.

    certainly, i suspect the current module 1 will be deemed to be unfit for purpose when these new rules take hold.

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  16. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    1,427
    Thanks
    147
    Thanked 708 Times in 412 Posts
    To be fair in some groups like ours the trustees register doesn't change because the trustees don't change. Our current Treasurer is an age that politeness suggests I don't even guess but she has carried out the role for decades. The idea that we have to turn round and force her (who doesn't do "online" but runs our finances very capably) to do a (currently) irrelevant Module 1 just to tick some box somewhere is ridiculous. I suspect we won't be the only group where someone who has been quietly wondering how long they want to carry on in a Trustee role decides that now is the time to bow out. (The other issue is that at least locally "doing Mod 1 online" isn't enough to get it signed off - there needs to be a degree of examination etc with a LTA or LTM to ensure that the information has taken root - we don't have spare LTA/LTM's to suddenly start assessing a load of Mod 1's for GEC members).

    I'm personally struggling to see the benefits that enforcing membership (and thereby generic training) is requiring - fine if we have a GEC specific Mod 1 which looks at Trustee responsibilities rather than some of the other stuff but at present there is no sign that that is what is being proposed.

  17. #13
    CSL (In training)
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    2,058
    Thanked 584 Times in 431 Posts
    There's a part of me wondering if anyone at HQ actually made the link that making them members by default forces Module 1. It's pretty easy to miss.

  18. #14
    Group Scout Leader
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Stanstead Abbotts, Hertfordshire
    Posts
    641
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 222 Times in 126 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BigBadBaloo View Post
    Equally, I have never understood why some Groups pay out group funds unnecessarily.
    The benefit of membership (scouting magazine, service awards, emails from HQ, insurance, feeling that you are a full part of the team, etc) outweigh the cost. Saving the £30 is missing the bigger picture, undervaluing volunteers and not building a strong team.
    Last edited by pstretch; 17-07-2015 at 11:38 AM.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to pstretch For This Useful Post:

    mediamanager (17-07-2015)

  20. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    32
    Thanks
    28
    Thanked 54 Times in 8 Posts
    Or is it because compass was incapable of having a role that wasn't a member.. we didnt get the associate member option...
    Chris Jay
    ACSL
    Rastrick St Matthews Cubs
    Brighouse

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to chris jay For This Useful Post:

    scarlet pimp (17-07-2015)

Similar Threads

  1. Charnwood 2016
    By sitb2000 in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-07-2015, 04:52 PM
  2. Roihu 2016
    By Kev in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-04-2015, 07:50 PM
  3. [Answered] Annual Membership Fee 2016
    By PaulArthurs in forum UK Chief Commissioner Questions (CLOSED)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 23-02-2015, 01:43 PM
  4. Cubjam 2016 is launched...
    By cubjam in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 10-10-2014, 03:44 PM
  5. Cubjam 2016
    By wolfie in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-09-2013, 02:06 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •