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Thread: Re: Appointment Process

  1. #1
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Re: Appointment Process

    'An area in particular I believe we could be much better at is more honest feedback to individuals, good and bad, either as part of the ongoing review process (which avoids surprises, helps personal development etc.) or during interview processes.'

    which is the best way to do it.

    however.....

    ongoing review process?

    i have never (knowingly) undergone an appointment review. if my appointment(s) have been reviewed i know i haven't made any contribution.

    (i have been in scouting just long enough to have a so-called mandatory review.)

    i have undergone two interviews for roles in scouting. in one i was selected for the post, in the other i wasn't. in the one where my application failed there was no feedback.

    more a wish than reality?

    TM
    Last edited by merryweather; 04-09-2015 at 07:31 AM.
    going...going...still here...just

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    Senior Member dasy2k1's Avatar
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    Heh I try and stay clear of anything at district level or above, getting any role is a matter of who you know rather than what you know and they have a massive tendency to become echo chambers
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Scarlet Pimps experience doesn't match mine in the Districts I've served in. I hope he doesn't think his 'predicament' is common place - or tar everyone with the same brush.

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

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    Senior Member Matt Donnelly's Avatar
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    The problem might not be universal, but it is widespread.
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  7. #5
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet.pimp
    A colleague from the South tells me in there District one candidate had over 150 leaders nominate the same single Leader but the appointment made was a person who self nominated without further support.

    I also understand that in another District more than ten people applied or where nominated to be a DC but only one was interviewed
    150 leaders nominating the same leader??? amazing. Wonder how they did that? did they use the correct 'form' or did they spoil their ballot paper? or was it just a 'you've got my vote mate' down the pub comment?

    10 people applied to be a DC??? now I am suspicious!

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

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  9. #6
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    The problems in these District and County roles is that the responsible Commissioner has to appoint the person who THEY consider the right person for the job and someone who THEY want on their team who they think they can best work with.

    Currently the only appointee is the Commissioner and ratified by the apps committee.

  10. #7
    Senior Member Matt Donnelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb123 View Post
    The problems in these District and County roles is that the responsible Commissioner has to appoint the person who THEY consider the right person for the job and someone who THEY want on their team who they think they can best work with.

    Currently the only appointee is the Commissioner and ratified by the apps committee.
    The problem would often seem to be that the process for working out who would be best is inadequate, and their mate gets it, or the yes-man/woman gets it. I see a lot of reluctance to including able people who might have different points of view.
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    Senior Member Matt Donnelly's Avatar
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    I have just read the last reply in the original thread to Wayne, it appears one issue is understanding of what the Appointmenrs Advisory Committee does. It is there to ensure candidates understand their role and accept the values of Scouting, normally once an application has been made.

    It is not there to select the best candidate. Perhaps we need an additional clear approach/training for selection processes. Either the remit of the AAC needs extending, or we need a good mechanism for setting up ad-hoc selection panels to support commissioners in the selection process.
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  12. #9
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    There is already a robust selection procedure for DC and CC roles. ADC roles are basically there to help the DC (and ACC of the CC), so why should the DC/CC not simply appoint these himself per his wishes, as that is the most effective way for him to get the team he wants?

  13. #10
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    There is already a robust selection procedure for DC and CC roles. ADC roles are basically there to help the DC (and ACC of the CC), so why should the DC/CC not simply appoint these himself per his wishes, as that is the most effective way for him to get the team he wants?
    Yes, but the runs the risk of just having the DC/CC's mates in roles and a "muggin's turn" approach. All District appointments should be open and publicised for application by anyone who wishes to do the role, at the minimum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Yes, but the runs the risk of just having the DC/CC's mates in roles
    I think you misunderstand what those roles are meant to be.

    ACC and ADC roles (and DDC/DCC) are meant to be the DC/CC's right-hand men, as it were. That concept would be changed if they were not simply the DC/CC's personal choice. As the roles exist at present (remember they are all terminated when a DC/CC resigns, and reappointed by the next one) having a selection process for them would damage the concept of them.

    Having a process similar to appointing the DC/CC would be just like forcing a Section Leader to take an Assistant they couldn't stand, but with far more wide-reaching consequences, and making the DC/CC role even less attractive than it already is.

    If there are concerns about "cronyism" in particular locations, ensuring that the DC/CC selection is totally impartial and the role widely promoted is the best way to deal with that. Bucks, for example (if I remember rightly), last time round appointed a complete outsider to Scouting as CC, and he has done an excellent job and will be a very hard act to follow.

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  16. #12
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I think you misunderstand what those roles are meant to be.

    ACC and ADC roles (and DDC/DCC) are meant to be the DC/CC's right-hand men, as it were. That concept would be changed if they were not simply the DC/CC's personal choice. As the roles exist at present (remember they are all terminated when a DC/CC resigns, and reappointed by the next one) having a selection process for them would damage the concept of them.

    Having a process similar to appointing the DC/CC would be just like forcing a Section Leader to take an Assistant they couldn't stand, but with far more wide-reaching consequences, and making the DC/CC role even less attractive than it already is.

    If there are concerns about "cronyism" in particular locations, ensuring that the DC/CC selection is totally impartial and the role widely promoted is the best way to deal with that. Bucks, for example (if I remember rightly), last time round appointed a complete outsider to Scouting as CC, and he has done an excellent job and will be a very hard act to follow.
    I'm not saying there should be a full-on selection process, but that a DC/CC should invite applications, not just ask people they know.
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  17. #13
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    ....(remember they are all terminated when a DC/CC resigns, and reappointed by the next one)....
    Does that (or should that) apply to GSLs as they are a DC appointment?
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastor View Post
    Does that (or should that) apply to GSLs as they are a DC appointment?
    No, because GSLs are not the same as ADC/ACC - they aren't specifically intended to be the DC/CC's sidekick in the same way. The thing I'd change about GSLs is making them the direct line manager of the Section Leaders, which they presently sort-of aren't - much of the responsibility is with the DC.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    I'm not saying there should be a full-on selection process, but that a DC/CC should invite applications, not just ask people they know.
    The whole point is that they are people they know. The roles would be different if they were selected more openly.

    If you want a wider selection of ADC/ACC, the place to start is when selecting the DC/CC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastor View Post
    Does that (or should that) apply to GSLs as they are a DC appointment?
    Yes - and it used to be that the new DC would conduct a review of all appointments he/she manages within 6 months of being appointed. (However, I can't find the relevant POR ref to this is still in place)
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