Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 45 of 45

Thread: Re: Appointment Process

  1. #31
    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    West Yorkshire
    Posts
    2,131
    Thanks
    407
    Thanked 328 Times in 200 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    But in some places that is exactly what happens.
    I struggle to believe that is the case!
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

  2. #32
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    'auchtermuchty'
    Posts
    7,660
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 1,750 Times in 1,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    the DC is the line manager of some district level appointments.
    let me just explain this. (i'm not at home at present so don't have access to all info, thus relying on memory!)

    the DC is the line manager of the GSLs, ADCs and the DESC.

    however, the DESC is the line manager of all ESLs and AESLs; not the DC.

    the DC is responsible for the appointment reviews of all GSLs, ADCs and DESC in their normal course (every 5 years, but maybe earlier if decided necessary by them).

    the DESC is responsible for the appointment reviews of all ESLs and AESLs in their normal course (again 5 years); not the DC.

    however, on the appointment of a new DC all district level appointments: including GSLs, ADCs, DESC, ESLs and AESLs, are subject to review.

    (memory improves with sleep!)

    the last 4 DC appointments i have served under as a district level appointment. i was not subjected to review on any of their appointments. (afaiaa, i have never been subjected to a review, certainly not formally and if i have then i have not been informed.)

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  3. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    542
    Thanked 104 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    i'm sorry but you are wrong here and in your earlier statements.

    ADC and ACC appointments are NOT terminated when a (new) DC (for district appointments) or CC (for county appointments) is appointed.

    iirc (and i know you will most certainly test my memory!) termination of appointments is made under rule 15.7

    ....and that refers you to the appointment process appendix.

    ....and there, if my appalling memory serves me still, the reasons for terminating an appointment are given in section 7 - i remember that bit!- and clause a - it's got to be the first one, i think.

    NONE of these say any appointment is terminated on the appointment of a new DC (or CC)

    on the appointment of a new DC (or CC for county) all district (or county) level appointments are subject to review. that review, by the new DC (or CC for county) may decide to terminate the appointments, but that is not automatic.

    GSLs, like ADCs, are a district level appointment. they are both subject to automatic review on the appointment of a new DC, as are all district level appointments whether the DC is the line manager or not, as i mentioned earlier.

    furthermore, as i also mentioned earlier, you will find in the same section of POR, section 5 clause h or i (blinking memory!!! i wish it was as good as others - keep getting shown up by the cognoscenti on 1FB these days!), the table - i think it's a table not a list! - states that the GSL is the line manager of all group appointments. period.

    the DC is the line manager of some district level appointments.



    we should have an open application and selection process for these appointments, with skills to do the job being of primary importance, but the DC/CC must have a say and must feel they are capable and happy to work with the appointment.

    TM
    And what happens if theirs an apparent open application and selection process for these appointments (but in reality the DC just selects regardless of skills?), with skills to do the job being of primary importance, but the DC/CC must have a say and must feel they are capable and happy to work with the appointment (or is not happy to work with that person as they do have the skills and therefore don't respect or get on with the DC?).

  4. #34
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    'auchtermuchty'
    Posts
    7,660
    Thanks
    398
    Thanked 1,750 Times in 1,054 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    And what happens if theirs an apparent open application and selection process for these appointments (but in reality the DC just selects regardless of skills?), with skills to do the job being of primary importance, but the DC/CC must have a say and must feel they are capable and happy to work with the appointment (or is not happy to work with that person as they do have the skills and therefore don't respect or get on with the DC?).
    we can never remove every element of subjectivity from the process. if a DC is determined to install their mates in certain roles then there is little that can be done, especially if those candidates possess at least the skills to do the roles.

    i'm not sure that these days a DC can really ignore the skills required for a role. most roles i see these days are open application and run by a recruitment panel.

    not seen it happen in my district as there hasn't been any vacancies for some time. i know in the district next door to where i live that they have a recruitment panel process for roles such as ADCs, DESCs and such like, with the DC being one of the panel. one of the 'problems' with the recruitment panel/open application approach is the time it can take from application to appointment. i've seen some DC appointments take a year or more and some DESC/ADC roles take almost as long. there are some roles simply left vacant because there isn't a suitable candidate.

    i applied for three roles this year (2 county and 1 district, iirc). i was successful in one (which i thought was good going as it was imo the hardest one to go for) but not in the other two (never heard back. not sure if they were filled.)

    sometimes you get lucky!

    it can help if you have someone to champion you. (though some like me like to do things themselves.)

    there will always be an air of mystery surrounding many appointments. c'est la vie!

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  5. #35
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    542
    Thanked 104 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    we can never remove every element of subjectivity from the process. if a DC is determined to install their mates in certain roles then there is little that can be done, especially if those candidates possess at least the skills to do the roles.

    i'm not sure that these days a DC can really ignore the skills required for a role. most roles i see these days are open application and run by a recruitment panel.

    not seen it happen in my district as there hasn't been any vacancies for some time. i know in the district next door to where i live that they have a recruitment panel process for roles such as ADCs, DESCs and such like, with the DC being one of the panel. one of the 'problems' with the recruitment panel/open application approach is the time it can take from application to appointment. i've seen some DC appointments take a year or more and some DESC/ADC roles take almost as long. there are some roles simply left vacant because there isn't a suitable candidate.

    i applied for three roles this year (2 county and 1 district, iirc). i was successful in one (which i thought was good going as it was imo the hardest one to go for) but not in the other two (never heard back. not sure if they were filled.)

    sometimes you get lucky!

    it can help if you have someone to champion you. (though some like me like to do things themselves.)

    there will always be an air of mystery surrounding many appointments. c'est la vie!

    TM
    new desc announced without anyone saying that the old one had left.dc replacing mate now exmate with mate.

  6. #36
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,643
    Thanks
    1,544
    Thanked 2,183 Times in 1,272 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    new desc announced without anyone saying that the old one had left.dc replacing mate now exmate with mate.
    Well, I guess you'll be having a chat with them about there being a district explorer unit partnered with your group right?
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  7. #37
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    542
    Thanked 104 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Well, I guess you'll be having a chat with them about there being a district explorer unit partnered with your group right?
    no way!

  8. #38
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,643
    Thanks
    1,544
    Thanked 2,183 Times in 1,272 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    no way!
    Ok, so you'll be passing them a link to the factsheet on Explorer Scout Structures?

    http://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS452010.pdf

    Just so they understand how it should work.

    Ian
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  9. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    542
    Thanked 104 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Ok, so you'll be passing them a link to the factsheet on Explorer Scout Structures?

    http://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS452010.pdf

    Just so they understand how it should work.

    Ian
    No way

  10. #40
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    6,643
    Thanks
    1,544
    Thanked 2,183 Times in 1,272 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    No way
    Aaah, come on, a scout has courage in all difficulties! I mean, you're a GSL right? So an ideal time to introduce yourself to the new guy, I mean, GSLs and DESCs should be working together after all, to make sure linking and such is going on. This is the perfect opportunity no? And if not, why not?
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - Worldwide Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2018 - May 2019
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to ianw For This Useful Post:

    shiftypete (05-02-2016)

  12. #41
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    5,260
    Thanks
    917
    Thanked 633 Times in 422 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    no way!
    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    No way
    Why not?
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
    Web designer of free Scouting templates, Scouting Themes 4 WordPress.

    Social media
    Twitter: @WNScouts / @9NWScouts
    Facebook: /WNScouts
    Instagram: @WNScouts

  13. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    4,283
    Thanks
    1,528
    Thanked 1,181 Times in 857 Posts
    Some of the posts here lead me to believe that district positions are over subscribed - that applicants or interested parties are having to fight for positions.

    Where I am we usually have to press gang people into jobs. You might know of Father Ted's tea lady Mrs Doyle? Its a bit like that.

    No other comment to make, its just interesting.


  14. The Following User Says Thank You to pa_broon74 For This Useful Post:

    shiftypete (05-02-2016)

  15. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    542
    Thanked 104 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Why not?
    We will work with local ldr to help make it work for the YP.We wont be telling the DC how it should be done.No point.She would never forgive and as you all onow TSA/POR means DC is always right.

  16. #44
    Senior Member alirainsbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    690
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 236 Times in 144 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    Some of the posts here lead me to believe that district positions are over subscribed - that applicants or interested parties are having to fight for positions.

    Where I am we usually have to press gang people into jobs. You might know of Father Ted's tea lady Mrs Doyle? Its a bit like that.

    No other comment to make, its just interesting.

    I think that it is often forgotten that usually the reason the DC ends up appointing "their mate" is because nobody else wants the job.
    Last edited by alirainsbury; 05-02-2016 at 12:40 PM. Reason: over officious auto censor
    CSL 1st Marple Bradshaw Cubs

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to alirainsbury For This Useful Post:

    shiftypete (05-02-2016)

  18. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    542
    Thanked 104 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by alirainsbury View Post
    I think that it is often forgotten that usually the reason the DC ends up appointing "their mate" is because nobody else wants the job.
    definately not hete.its not even been stated there as a vacency.

Similar Threads

  1. [Answered] Appointment Process
    By scarlet pimp in forum UK Chief Commissioner Questions (CLOSED)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-09-2015, 06:53 PM
  2. New DBS process
    By andyt in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 16-03-2015, 09:48 AM
  3. DC appointment process
    By Don Quixote in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 30-12-2012, 08:44 PM
  4. [Answered] Appointment Review Process
    By fmountford in forum UK Chief Commissioner Questions (CLOSED)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 18-03-2012, 06:50 PM
  5. The process
    By dragonhhjh in forum Scouting Talk
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 18-03-2010, 12:11 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •