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Thread: Duty to the Queen or

  1. #1
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    Duty to the Queen or

    When we promise to do our duty to the Queen aren't we actually promising to do our duty to The Queen's parliament, which rules by the consent of the people ?

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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    As it is your honour and your promise, I would argue that it could mean whatever you wish so long as you do your best to uphold it. I personally prefer the alternative wording available to other nationalities resident in the UK
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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    What BBB said

    Do you envisage a time where the distinction becomes relevant?

    I can see how we would go from where we are to where we have no monarchy (Although I hope we don't, I quite like the institution), depending on a few factors. I can't see it happening violently though. Perhaps I'm too optimistic.

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    Had a heated debate about this before, there is no avoiding doing your duty 'to the queen', its in all iterations - unless they changed it again.

    I'm ambiguous, its just words the kids mumble at specific times of the year.

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    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I'm ambiguous, its just words the kids mumble at specific times of the year.
    Sounds familiar??? look what happened last time that sentiment was expressed.

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    When we promise to do our duty to the Queen aren't we actually promising to do our duty to The Queen's parliament, which rules by the consent of the people ?
    Essentially yes, although due to the unwritten nature of our constitution there are arguments for other variations. I always find the argument that actually you are promising to do you duty to the people of the UK quite a strong one.

    Surprisingly being both a Christian and a Republican I actually think there is a stronger argument for including the monarch (while we still have one) in the promise than God/deity of your choice. The latter's existence or otherwise is purely a matter of faith. The former's position as head of state is a question fact.

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    Senior Member dasy2k1's Avatar
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    My loyalty is to the Queen and the country as a whole not to the rabble who call themselves our leaders. There has not been a prime minister worthy of the position since Churchill!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ACSL (Bagheera)
    74th Birmingham St Germains
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    I am vaguely republican but have always views my duty to the Queen to be synonymous with my duty to the Country (which actually I view as being pretty much the same as my duty to God, i.e. to try to be a decent human being by treating my fellow humans as I would wish to be treated and generally try to look after the world we all live in)

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
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    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    Sounds familiar??? look what happened last time that sentiment was expressed.
    Not really. I'm just replying to a general comment.

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    Only you can judge what your personal duty to the Queen is as part of your Promise, and there will be as many different answers as there are members of the organisation. Some will see it as a duty directly to the Queen/Royal Family, some to the constitution, some to parliamentary democracy, some to the upholding of the laws of the land, some to other meanings or interpretations, some to differing combinations of these.

    It's why part of the preparation before making the Promise should be for each person to take time to work out for themselves what they will proactively do to keep each part of it, there are a range of possible answers . . .

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    Taken at face value (the Queen being the queen and patron of Scouts) the promise does present some with issues. As I said, I'm ambiguous but others (parents) may not be. Even 'duty to country' could be misconstrued as patriotism/nationalism - please note, that is not what I am saying.

    It bothers me slightly that our SL doesn't give parents or kids the other options for investiture - he won't acknowledge they exist and essentially foists the original on them. However, as I said, its just something the kids mumble, to the majority, it doesn't mean anything.

    Which is sad because it could mean something if they were made aware of all the options available.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I'm ambiguous
    Second time you've said that, but being quite clear. Do you mean you are ambivalent (don't care either way) rather than ambiguous (could be taken two ways)?

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    Sorry, I mean ambivalent.

    Not sure why auto-correct on my work machine doesn't like the word 'ambivalent'. (It doesn't seem to be ambivalent about it at all... Haw haw, ummm...)

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    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    I see it as duty to my country. It is no different to saluting the Union Flag at flag break. It is showing our support and respect to the country in which we live.

    In all honesty, I have no problem with it being queen, but equally would have no problem if it were changed to Country. Equally I think it could be removed and the whole promise replaced with:

    On my honour
    I promise to do my best
    To uphold our Scout Values
    To help other people
    and to keep the Scout Law


    I don't think they are just words that kids mumble at certain times of the year. Maybe it is when you're in the younger sections, but by Scouts and certainly Explorers I would hope that for a lot of the young people in Scouting it means something, and that for our adult members it really does mean something.

    Tonight we are investing a number of people.
    I'm not sure what promise the Scouts are making (the SL will have discussed it with them)
    I am investing a new AGSL using the non-religious promise
    (We might also be investing our new "group mascot" although I doubt he will be able to verbally make a promise!!)

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

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  17. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    In all honesty, I have no problem with it being queen, but equally would have no problem if it were changed to Country. Equally I think it could be removed and the whole promise replaced with:

    On my honour
    I promise to do my best
    To uphold our Scout Values
    To help other people
    and to keep the Scout Law
    That is pretty much what I (and no doubt many others) suggested during the promise review, that way everyone would use the same promise. I think it unfortunate that they were not brave enough to do this.

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