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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    1, Compass, say no more
    2, The permit system is a shambles, only last night was I with guys who submitted paperwork last March and still only have it partly progressed.
    Those two are related. My line of work is IT service management - and I know I could have done a good job of Compass if our company were doing it using the back-end (ServiceNow) we use. Permits are an absolutely textbook case for approval workflows which would have demystified the whole system.

    5, Training does not equip people with the skills they really need.
    I agree, the training system is completely broken and needs redesigning and simplifying from the ground up. In particular, the role of TA and CTM/LTM needs to be heavily reduced - there just aren't enough people to do it properly.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Those two are related. My line of work is IT service management - and I know I could have done a good job of Compass if our company were doing it using the back-end (ServiceNow) we use. Permits are an absolutely textbook case for approval workflows which would have demystified the whole system.



    I agree, the training system is completely broken and needs redesigning and simplifying from the ground up. In particular, the role of TA and CTM/LTM needs to be heavily reduced - there just aren't enough people to do it properly.
    Training and the whole wood badge thing is awful. There is no consistency some districts are good wit ltm's and courses and validation, some arn't. The whole 2 years to get woof badge is ignored, I've known people who've been scouting for 15 years and still no wood badge. I used to be bothered about the wood badge but I'm conpletely apathetic about it, its just hassle getting people to 'validate' training for something you've already being doing for years, and all you get for the hassle is a plastic beads and a pre printed certificate.
    AGSL / SL 9th Fairfield

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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    I agree, the training system is completely broken and needs redesigning and simplifying from the ground up. In particular, the role of TA and CTM/LTM needs to be heavily reduced - there just aren't enough people to do it properly.
    It could be much simpler. I volunteered as a TA, but I found that the LTM kept interfering, so in the end I just left it all to her.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyke View Post
    Training and the whole wood badge thing is awful. There is no consistency some districts are good wit ltm's and courses and validation, some arn't. The whole 2 years to get woof badge is ignored, I've known people who've been scouting for 15 years and still no wood badge. I used to be bothered about the wood badge but I'm conpletely apathetic about it, its just hassle getting people to 'validate' training for something you've already being doing for years, and all you get for the hassle is a plastic beads and a pre printed certificate.
    Who told you 2 years? It's 3, extendable to (but not beyond[1]) 5.

    [1] Actually mine was 5 and a half

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Who told you 2 years? It's 3, extendable to (but not beyond[1]) 5.

    [1] Actually mine was 5 and a half
    lol

    they make it so much faff to get the wood beads, you go on some training (usually out of date) and then you have all the 'validation' farce, having to prove to someone that your capable of doing something that you have already been doing for years. I work full time, also at uni, and am running a scout group, I just don't have time to chase it all up. I don't blame my district, they do the best they can but have had no LTA for ages, as no one wants to do it, and I don't blame them to be honest. They should make it more, you on the course and any validation is done there and then, or you can get prior-learnings validated.
    AGSL / SL 9th Fairfield

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RisingStar View Post
    Slightly puzzled by the Wayne fan club..
    Not a fan club just acknowledging that he helped changed a lot of things that I really believed needed changing.

    Also I have had more communication with him than any other UKCC which I appreciate

    Has he been 100% successful in everything he set out to do no, is anyone ?

    Do I agree 100% with everything he does and stands for No

    Are there issues which still really need sorting yes there always be.

    Has Wayne been a force for good IMO yes.
    Last edited by Tony Ransley; 17-01-2016 at 06:02 AM.

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  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    Who told you 2 years? It's 3, extendable to (but not beyond[1]) 5.

    [1] Actually mine was 5 and a half
    Interesting one. Our district SL is excellent at his job and his day job as an ASL. He would be a very sore loss to the movement. As he points out he could validate reasonably quickly, but may have to spend a bit more time on one or two modules and sees no value in doing so, so won't dedicate the time when he has his own business as well as the Scouting stuff he does so well.

    Should we chuck him out (the 7 year point is approaching)? Insist that he validates - a process he doesn't believe in, and may well walk if forced to do something he sees as valueless?

    Or - keep the status quo delivering good Scouting and support in the district?

    That's the kind of dilemma TSA needs to consider thousands of times over.

  10. #23
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    Agreed - if TSA let people loose to run sections after the first three modules, its seems bizarre to decide after 5 years doing the job that lack of training makes them incapable of continuing. What does that say about what they've sanctioned in that 5 year period.

    The only justification for that position is wanting their cake and eat it at the same time - they want a stick to hold over people to do training that they clearly don't want to do, but they know they can't afford to wait for leaders until people have finished if they said you had to have a wood badge to run a section.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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  12. #24
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    Two observations: There are a lot of people in charge of training (LTM's, etc.) who like to gold plate everything, and make getting modules validated very difficult. There are also a lot of people who think they know everything, but are not willing to make any effort to prove it. Both are a problem, particularly when they meet, when no progress will be made.

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  14. #25
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    The 5 years rule seems to be fairly flexible, I expect to get my beads and my 10y knot at the same time... (i have finally completed my woodbadge but the final award is pending co***ss.... ) to be honest I have been in 7 groups in this 10 years and it would seem the counter resets if you change appointment
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ACSL (Bagheera)
    74th Birmingham St Germains
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


  15. #26
    Yes, I've got the T-shirt Sparkgap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dasy2k1 View Post
    The 5 years rule seems to be fairly flexible, I expect to get my beads and my 10y knot at the same time... (i have finally completed my woodbadge but the final award is pending co***ss.... ) to be honest I have been in 7 groups in this 10 years and it would seem the counter resets if you change appointment
    No it doesn't. I've had several different appointments in different districts in the past 30 years and they've all added up.
    Andy
    SL 1st Wellington
    www.wellingtonscouts.org

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