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Thread: Young Person Information Forms

  1. #1
    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    Young Person Information Forms

    Glad to see a question to Wayne re the form.

    I know POR says we should use it but it also says a system call Compass shall be used for youth data. As Compass for youth is currently not in use (wonder if/when it will come back ?) then the awkward in me says we don't need to use the YPIF

    I agree with the principal of collecting the same data (I'm sure there are Groups/Units who collected dangerously little - in fact, I know there are) but the form is just embarrassing to issue. How many times must people enter telephone numbers, addresses, and email addresses (not to mention the boxes for social media details).

    I have taken to issuing the form with the signature request on page 2 circled (because people were not turning to the final page - probably lost will to live by then), I write 'Young Persons Details' where the youth name etc is required on page 2 (because parents were putting their own, I cross out all social media boxes, I cross out gift aid and put 'x's by the signature boxes.

    Our own Group form captured everything the YPIF does (except parent's DOB - who could have foreseen that would be a requirement?), does it on 2 sides of A4, only requires data to be entered once and even has a data protection statement and signatory !
    Last edited by David Kendall; 30-01-2016 at 12:43 AM.
    In between roles/helping out where I can......

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    We took as decision as a Group and Unit not to use the HQ issued YPIF but to use the version I created which collects all the same useful information (no social media crap) and has the same data protection wording but does not promise that the form will be destroyed as it will not. Oh and its two sides of A4 is is far more presentable too http://falkonerscouts.org.uk/wp-cont...ation-Form.pdf

    Bring on the Teal helicopters and they can explain how we can comply with the part of POR which says all youth members must be entered into Compass. I suggested the removal or temporary suspension of this rule about a year ago now, the longer HQ refuses to do so the more it brings the whole of POR into disrepute IMHO
    Last edited by shiftypete; 30-01-2016 at 01:00 AM.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    Our form is very similar except that we ask for addresses for both parent's/guardians if not same as YP.

    Everything captured on 1 piece of A4 - job done
    In between roles/helping out where I can......

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    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kendall View Post
    Our form is very similar except that we ask for addresses for both parent's/guardians if not same as YP.
    So does mine, the parent they do not live with would go in the 'alternative contact' box.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    We took as decision as a Group and Unit not to use the HQ issued YPIF but to use the version I created which collects all the same useful information (no social media crap) and has the same data protection wording but does not promise that the form will be destroyed as it will not. Oh and its two sides of A4 is is far more presentable too http://falkonerscouts.org.uk/wp-cont...ation-Form.pdf

    Bring on the Teal helicopters and they can explain how we can comply with the part of POR which says all youth members must be entered into Compass. I suggested the removal or temporary suspension of this rule about a year ago now, the longer HQ refuses to do so the more it brings the whole of POR into disrepute IMHO
    The one thing I don't like about this form is that the logo in the corner looks like it was printed on paper in an inkjet which was running dry, and then scanned! Minor detail though

    I've popped an extra post in the original question sending Wayne here. I don't see why this form can't be the standard one. Except maybe the branding.

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    We still use out own two page form but we have also been looking into paperless options.
    I emailed the info centre regarding paperless collection of information (through something like Google forms) and if it was compulsory to have written signatures, they said the following:

    Yes, will be fine as long as it is clear who the electronic form has been submitted by. If you havenít already, we would suggest that you add boxes into the Google form that allows the parent/guardian to type their name and to confirm the date before checking the permission box.
    I asked this in relation to 'medical' form but i might just apply it to YPIF as well.

    I'm happy as I can make something else paperless!!
    Last edited by jtbtroon; 30-01-2016 at 02:34 AM.

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    Sea Scout Leader richardnhunt's Avatar
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    We have a form that worked for us, had certain declarations (eg ability to swim, attendance, helping the group etc) and was clear - the YPIF is an embarrassment and it would be nice if must use could change to can use.

    What would be helpful is if they were to provide key text which must be on any joining form

    Cheers

    Rich

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  11. #8
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetoad View Post
    The one thing I don't like about this form is that the logo in the corner looks like it was printed on paper in an inkjet which was running dry, and then scanned! Minor detail though
    I hadn't noticed that, must have been corrupted in the process of converting it to a PDF as its fine in the word version. I will try and fix it.

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Previous Scouting Roles
    2003 - 2013 ABSL
    2017-2018 AGSL

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  12. #9
    Senior Member Hathi_Cambridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtbtroon View Post
    We still use out own two page form but we have also been looking into paperless options.
    I emailed the info centre regarding paperless collection of information (through something like Google forms) and if it was compulsory to have written signatures, they said the following:



    I asked this in relation to 'medical' form but i might just apply it to YPIF as well.

    I'm happy as I can make something else paperless!!
    Left-hand right-hand !

    When I asked Gilwell for advice on gathering data as Compass preparation I was advised against Google Docs for data protection reasons. IIRC "you don't know where the data is stored".

    Not sure where the original comment from Gilwell is in the quoted section, if you scroll up the thread the above makes a little more sense.

    FWIW ShiftyPete's form seems to fit the requirements vary well.
    Last edited by Hathi_Cambridge; 30-01-2016 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Lost embedded quote

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    Since the Safe Harbour scheme is no longer a thing after being ruled invalid late last year I think it would be against the Data Protection Act to use a Google Form, exactly because of what Gilwell said about not knowing where it's stored.

    At the same time, lots of research is still being done to figure out the full implications of the loss of Safe Harbour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetoad View Post
    At the same time, lots of research is still being done to figure out the full implications of the loss of Safe Harbour.
    And meanwhile people are being pragmatic about how the world of "cloud based" IT is now working, even if technically breaking the law.

    The DPA is, as we might say of a law, an outdated and outmoded ass. It needs updating for 2016. Arguably, any law surrounding IT use needs updating roughly annually.

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    The signature is pointless. The form is destroyed the moment it is entered into compass. We are not allowed to keep the form! Why sign it? Worthless and stupid.

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  17. #13
    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    The signature is pointless. The form is destroyed the moment it is entered into compass. We are not allowed to keep the form! Why sign it? Worthless and stupid.
    I think the idea is that we don't accept the form without signature(s) and if the parent(s) won't sign then their child cannot join. Data should not be entered in Compass without receipt of a signed form.

    Not sure legally how a challenge would stand from a parent who said they did not sign
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  18. #14
    Senior Member Hathi_Cambridge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joetoad View Post
    Since the Safe Harbour scheme is no longer a thing after being ruled invalid late last year I think it would be against the Data Protection Act to use a Google Form, exactly because of what Gilwell said about not knowing where it's stored.

    At the same time, lots of research is still being done to figure out the full implications of the loss of Safe Harbour.

    You may (or may not) be correct however the Information Centre has (again) provided contradictory information. Surely someone has made a deciison on this area as part of the Compass project.

    Ideally the decision would be recorded somewhere and used as part of training for the IC team.

    I can but dream.

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    Senior Member Cottsyboy's Avatar
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    I thought the signature was agreeing to the data being stored/passed to 3rd parties etc. Then once signed was input into Comparse , destroyed. Without it no membership to scouting. It's a very poorly designed form that mirrored how ino was input. I don't use it as all mandatory info is in our 1 page version which we keep on us when out and about. It needs to be redesigned as our parents didn't like giving social media contact info etc. Why does TSA need this much info?

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