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Thread: Membership Fees

  1. #61
    Map Geek marcush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1stupton View Post
    So over 18 no DBS then they should pay capitation, good way of controlling this, thanks
    So you basically blackmail people into paying or taking out a role that requires a DBS, you would loose members not gain them.

    Rule 66. A map and compass offers no protection against getting horribly lost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    So you basically blackmail people into paying or taking out a role that requires a DBS, you would loose members not gain them.
    The term I like is pay to play, if a Network member doesn't have a leader role then why should Groups YP pay for their play.

    Edit........

    Just like a Group would loose a YP if they didn't pay ??
    Last edited by 1stupton; 03-02-2016 at 10:11 AM.

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    Agreed.The guidance states dist and county camps.As a group ALL adults incl Nework members are subject to a DBS by us.
    If they are not in a leadership role you could be breaking the law.
    Ian Wilkins
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  4. #64
    Map Geek marcush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1stupton View Post
    The term I like is pay to play, if a Network member doesn't have a leader role then why should Groups YP pay for their play.

    Edit........

    Just like a Group would loose a YP if they didn't pay ??
    The network programme is very different to other sections and network members have to pay for every activity they do, which can be quite expensive by the time they've done, DofE, qsa, explorer belt and scouts of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSL-Rob View Post
    In which case you cannot invite Network Members on the camp unless they also have another role which requires a DBS.
    Network members can attend a camp as a participant without a DBS.

    If they're attending in a leadership role then they will need a DBS.

    It is myth that all over 18s staying overnight at camp etc need a DBS. We can't just DBS someone because of their age.


    Paul

  6. #66
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulArthurs View Post
    It is myth that all over 18s staying overnight at camp etc need a DBS. We can't just DBS someone because of their age.
    As it's apparently Groundhog Day, can I ask about parents at a Family Camp?

    So, we have a family camp, parents bring their kids, explorers and network go, and their programme is to run activities. Who gets DBS'd?

    Ian
    Ian Wilkins
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  8. #67
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcush View Post
    The network programme is very different to other sections and network members have to pay for every activity they do, which can be quite expensive by the time they've done, DofE, qsa, explorer belt and scouts of the world.
    And the other sections don't. Network is being subsidised by the Beavers, Cubs, Scouts and Explorers who pay ams. Some of those network members will be in paid jobs and able to fund their own jollies.

    Sorry its unfair and the only reason TSA supports it is it boosts numbers - network members should pay the same ams as everyone else and if the lack of ams is to encourage their membership then lets do it for all sections.

    Equality
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  9. #68
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    NO, they are "Youth Members" as members of Network, which is a "Youth Section". Network is not an ASU; it is a section run to provide scouting to its members. They may also be Adult Leaders in a separate role - but when attending an event as a Network member they are a Youth Member of TSA.

    Why can you not understand this?
    At 18+ they become adult - why can't you understand that?. When they turn 18+ they become members of Network and DO NOT Pay a levy - because they are Adult. It would appear TSA understand that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    At 18+ they become adult - why can't you understand that?. When they turn 18+ they become members of Network and DO NOT Pay a levy - because they are Adult. It would appear TSA understand that.
    I think ASLChris is not saying that they don't become an adult, but that because they are participating as a youth member, the rule doesn't apply to them (despite being an adult).

    The key is whether "participating as a youth member" removes the need for a DBS. I don't think that it would if push came to shove.

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    there is a tiny number of network scouts and most of them are volunteering elsewhere in the movement.

    What price a volunteer? Do we ask them to do x number of hours? or do we value them by what would have been cancelled without them?

    3 networtkers run the catering for cubs camp but it is only 2 days work... do we still charge them subs? the camp would be cancelled without them.. hang on.. this is complicated already.
    a networker turns up every week for cubs but doesn't do much? do we charge him?

    why are people so angry?

    a group of 40 something leaders do some bushcraft camps without any kids... sort of to learn new skills but also to get away from home and have a laugh... now they are doing scouty stuff with scout equipment, do we need to charge them subs? what is the rule? if a grown up is enjoying their scouting, we should charge them subs?

    Under 18s pay. Over 18s do not. It is so simple. Can you imagine the debate an anger there would be if we had to hold "adult volunteer justification hearings' for 18-25 yr olds?

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  14. #71
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    there is a tiny number of network scouts and most of them are volunteering elsewhere in the movement.

    What price a volunteer? Do we ask them to do x number of hours? or do we value them by what would have been cancelled without them?

    3 networtkers run the catering for cubs camp but it is only 2 days work... do we still charge them subs? the camp would be cancelled without them.. hang on.. this is complicated already.
    a networker turns up every week for cubs but doesn't do much? do we charge him?

    why are people so angry?

    a group of 40 something leaders do some bushcraft camps without any kids... sort of to learn new skills but also to get away from home and have a laugh... now they are doing scouty stuff with scout equipment, do we need to charge them subs? what is the rule? if a grown up is enjoying their scouting, we should charge them subs?

    Under 18s pay. Over 18s do not. It is so simple. Can you imagine the debate an anger there would be if we had to hold "adult volunteer justification hearings' for 18-25 yr olds?
    Its simple Chris and unfair imho.
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  15. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    there is a tiny number of network scouts and most of them are volunteering elsewhere in the movement.
    There is no such thing as "Network Scouts"; they're members of the Scout Network.

    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    3 networtkers run the catering for cubs camp but it is only 2 days work... do we still charge them subs? the camp would be cancelled without them.. hang on.. this is complicated already.
    These 3 people should be registered as occassional helpers as they're helping to run the camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    a networker turns up every week for cubs but doesn't do much? do we charge him?
    If they're attending Cubs every week then I would expect them to have a role as Sectional Assistant or be regsitered as an Occassional Helper.


    Paul

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    At 18+ they become adult - why can't you understand that?. When they turn 18+ they become members of Network and DO NOT Pay a levy - because they are Adult. It would appear TSA understand that.
    Anyone aged 18+ is an adult; no argument.
    But, the Scout Network is the fifth youth section. They can attends camps, events etc as participants.

    The Scout Network has had a massive boost in numbers, as all Members aged 18 to 25 are now Scout Network members. Many of these may opt not to take part in the programme available to them.


    Paul

  16. #73
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1stupton View Post
    The term I like is pay to play, if a Network member doesn't have a leader role then why should Groups YP pay for their play.

    Edit........

    Just like a Group would loose a YP if they didn't pay ??
    The vast majority of Network members are Leaders, or will become Leaders once their education (eg. college or university) is complete. Why would you rather lose them entirely from Scouting than stump up 25?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mallah View Post
    At 18+ they become adult - why can't you understand that?. When they turn 18+ they become members of Network and DO NOT Pay a levy - because they are Adult. It would appear TSA understand that.
    Seriously, are you even reading what is being written?!
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  17. #74
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger-uk View Post
    Its simple Chris and unfair imho.
    lots of things are 'unfair'... our beavers subsdise our scouts...

    our kids subsidise our leaders' uniforms and pay for a nice lunch on the campsite recce.

    no ****** should have to choose which 18-25 is worthy of a free place and who should have to pay, that would be lunacy.

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    And there are people who say 'the rules are the rules so must be followed regardless...' Often it's almost impossible to fathom what the rules actually are.

    Its easy to see why Network died on its ****.

    We have some ex-Explorers who come back and participate every now and again - I'm not even going to ask what their status might be.


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