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Thread: Membership Fees

  1. #91
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    And hope nobody reports you for breaking the law. Probably. Still not clear.
    I've never been crystal about who should be DBS checked, I have always played safe.
    1/ All adults in regular contact with young people - yes.
    2/ All adults staying overnight in the same location as young people - yes - one would imagine. BUT there have been times where sites have been shared and not all adults in one of the parties using the site have been DBS cleared... On the basis that they were not interacting with the young people at all. I think that might be questionable from a Safeguarding POV.
    3/ Adults attending a camp to run bases - this is not crystal clear. Will they be unsupervised? What is meant by "unsupervised?". Would it be possible to bring in third party instructors on a volunteer basis without DBS checking, if they were not staying overnight? Would supervision need to be by a DBS checked adult always being present at the base?
    Ewan Scott

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  2. #92
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Regulated activity is defined and parents on a family camp ain't it.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    Regulated activity is defined and parents on a family camp ain't it.
    We were told we had to DBS check parents accompanying kids on a day trip a couple of years back - until we pointed out that would be illegal! To be fair I guess you can understand a safety first approach and we'd need to be careful of grey areas between parents on a family camp and parents acting as camp helpers on a section camp.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

  4. #94
    Senior Member Ian Mallett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    We were told we had to DBS check parents accompanying kids on a day trip a couple of years back - until we pointed out that would be illegal! To be fair I guess you can understand a safety first approach and we'd need to be careful of grey areas between parents on a family camp and parents acting as camp helpers on a section camp.
    If parents stay overnight on either camp what is the difference? If an adult is staying overnight at a scouting activity, then a DBS needs to have been completed. If not then they can't stay overnight.
    Simba (my daughter wouldn't let me be Rafiki, and now she's a Network Scout & ABSL)
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mallett View Post
    If parents stay overnight on either camp what is the difference? If an adult is staying overnight at a scouting activity, then a DBS needs to have been completed. If not then they can't stay overnight.
    That is Scout rules I agree. The question is whether Scout rules breach the law surrounding the permissibility of undertaking a DBS.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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  7. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    That is Scout rules I agree. The question is whether Scout rules breach the law surrounding the permissibility of undertaking a DBS.
    Perhaps a question for Wayne?

  8. #97
    Senior Member roger-uk's Avatar
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    I would rather be taken to account for having a DBS done when I thought necessary despite the rules Than explain to a parent why their child was abused by an adult that a DBS would have shown problems.
    Roger Woods
    Assistant Group Scout Leader,
    1st Sawley (All Saints) , Long Eaton

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  9. #98
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    I rather suspect that the answer would be that all adults staying overnight on a scouting activity require a DBS - this factsheet says that is so, and you cannot expect the UKCC to admit that TSA may be breaking the law.

    Perhaps a better approach might be to ask the DBS their opinion. I am of the view that a family camp may not be a regulated activity for all adults that attend.
    Peter

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  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    And hope nobody reports you for breaking the law. Probably. Still not clear.
    if i am reported i will refer to the county adv appts cttee chair.

  11. #100
    No mountain too high PeterSheppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    Regulated activity is defined and parents on a family camp ain't it.
    TSA seem to take the view that parents will be seen by YP to be equally trusted, and may have supervisory responsibility for others, and therefore are within the definition of regulated activity.

    It's a grey area that I suspect would only get cleared up by a test case. I wouldn't want to be the one involved in that though!!
    Assistant Area Commissioner (Activities) - Gwent

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  12. #101
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mallett View Post
    If an adult is staying overnight at a scouting activity, then a DBS needs to have been completed. If not then they can't stay overnight.
    Not if that adult is a Network member and is only on the camp in their capacity and a youth member of Scouting, i.e. they are not undertaking any supervisory role or any other regulated activity.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  13. #102
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Not if that adult is a Network member and is only on the camp in their capacity and a youth member of Scouting, i.e. they are not undertaking any supervisory role or any other regulated activity.
    not just a network member but any adult on a camp who is not acting in a supervisory capacity, however, that would then beg the question what the 'eck is the adult doing there then!?

    one would have great difficulty in arguing that on a scout section camp, for example, you can have a sole network member staying o/n who does not need a DBS check because they're not a leader and they're not 'interacting' with the scouts. so what are they doing then? standing in the middle of the field twiddling their.....

    there are likely to be very few occasions when a network member is taking part in a scouting activity with youth members and is not acting in a supervisory (regulated) activity.

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

  14. #103
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    there are likely to be very few occasions when a network member is taking part in a scouting activity with youth members and is not acting in a supervisory (regulated) activity.
    How so? Any camp where Network are on the camp with other Youth members but are not responsible for supervising other youth members in any way would be such a case and I would have thought this was a fairly common occurrence. We quite regularly have a few Network members join in Explorer events they just join in with the activities laid on they are not part of the Leadership team running the event and are not supervising the kids. I can think of a few large scale events where this would also be true namely Apex Challenge and Theme Park Camp.

    We used to automatically CRB people when they turned 18 and joined Network, we are not allowed to do this with a DBS check.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    2017-2018 AGSL

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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  15. #104
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    How so?
    as i said it how!

    Any camp where Network are on the camp with other Youth members but are not responsible for supervising other youth members in any way would be such a case and I would have thought this was a fairly common occurrence. We quite regularly have a few Network members join in Explorer events they just join in with the activities laid on they are not part of the Leadership team running the event and are not supervising the kids. I can think of a few large scale events where this would also be true namely Apex Challenge and Theme Park Camp.
    i wasn't talking about an activity where there was a group of network members and a group of youth both participating in their sections in the activity!

    i said: 'there are likely to be very few occasions when a network member is taking part in a scouting activity with youth members and is not acting in a supervisory (regulated) activity.'

    A network member (single), not network (plural)

    We used to automatically CRB people when they turned 18 and joined Network, we are not allowed to do this with a DBS check.
    we automatically CRB'd people when they turned 18 if they were acting in a supervisory/leadership capacity because there was no independent section then called network.

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

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