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Thread: OSM compulsory?

  1. #106
    The unpaid help ASLChris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    Reviving a two year old thread....

    apparently district want/are insisting that OSm is to be compulsory all sections/groups and "district" want full access to each sections OSM data, which i would assume to be everything ( programme/events/payments/youth member personal details/badge records etc etc)
    OSm has been paid for a year by County for all sections/groups in the County.
    And there was me thinking that the data within OSM is/was a group responsibility
    I would get the facts first, quite frankly: who, what and why. Any whilst certain areas are clearly unnecessary, others may be very sensible and useful.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Secretary and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    apparently district want/are insisting that OSm is to be compulsory all sections/groups and "district" want full access to each sections OSM data, which i would assume to be everything ( programme/events/payments/youth member personal details/badge records etc etc)
    District are in no position to require access to a Group's OSM or any other files of personal information. POR even removed the requirement to provide a list of members names and addresses at the annual census.

    Just sit back and ignore the District's requests.


    Paul

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  4. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    I would get the facts first, quite frankly: who, what and why. Any whilst certain areas are clearly unnecessary, others may be very sensible and useful.
    OSM provides a District Dashboard where it is paid for by District/County. That is all they should be getting. There is no sensible "legitimate interest" for them to hold PII.

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  6. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    OSM provides a District Dashboard where it is paid for by District/County. That is all they should be getting. There is no sensible "legitimate interest" for them to hold PII.
    Considering that the OP's comment contains an "apparently" and "District", this could be all they actually want.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Secretary and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  7. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    Considering that the OP's comment contains an "apparently" and "District", this could be all they actually want.
    They don't have to ask for that, so I doubt it is.

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    A DC could, i suspect, quite legitimately expect access to the programme and events sections if they intend to use this as a means of "notification". This in turn might make it easier for the group. Put the event or activity on OSM, and it's considered to have been "notified".

    A district might argue that they want access to badge data to "Monitor" how groups are doing. It would probably be hard to argue against it even if the idea of monitoring of this style is a bit abhorrent.

    If they require access to YP data for no good reason (so, emergency contact details for YP attending a district event might be considered a good reason) then i would respond asking them to provide a clear statement of what data they require, how they will process it, etc so that you can seek informed consent from the parents before releasing it.

  9. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    A DC could, i suspect, quite legitimately expect access to the programme and events sections if they intend to use this as a means of "notification". This in turn might make it easier for the group. Put the event or activity on OSM, and it's considered to have been "notified".

    A district might argue that they want access to badge data to "Monitor" how groups are doing. It would probably be hard to argue against it even if the idea of monitoring of this style is a bit abhorrent.

    If they require access to YP data for no good reason (so, emergency contact details for YP attending a district event might be considered a good reason) then i would respond asking them to provide a clear statement of what data they require, how they will process it, etc so that you can seek informed consent from the parents before releasing it.
    You cannot provide badge data without providing names, therefore to me there is no legitimate interest. However, they can see badge *stats* on the District dashboard, which is all they need.

    Programmes I might concede to if that is how they would like to see them, provided that can be given read only with no access to anything else.

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  11. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by campwarden View Post
    A DC could, i suspect, quite legitimately expect access to the programme and events sections if they intend to use this as a means of "notification". This in turn might make it easier for the group. Put the event or activity on OSM, and it's considered to have been "notified".

    A district might argue that they want access to badge data to "Monitor" how groups are doing. It would probably be hard to argue against it even if the idea of monitoring of this style is a bit abhorrent.

    If they require access to YP data for no good reason (so, emergency contact details for YP attending a district event might be considered a good reason) then i would respond asking them to provide a clear statement of what data they require, how they will process it, etc so that you can seek informed consent from the parents before releasing it.

    It could be argued that if District make these demands that they are the data controller and take all responsibility for it. The problem is that each Group IS and individual charity and entity so the District have no need for most of the information. Statistics only.

    As far as a District event, they do not need access to 100% of the data for the event. If only 50 Scouts are attending an event at best they would need information on those 50 Scouts and even then only if their own Leaders are not in attendance.

    The issue is that parents need to be aware of what data you are keeping and why and who will have access to it and for what purpose. In the Group you can better control that. Who knows what will happen to the data once outside the Group.

    If a District wants to micromanage every Group then the structure of Scouting needs changing and let adults decide whether they want that. (I think not).

  12. #114
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    After the initial phone call from GSL, things were cleared up a little as soon as the bulk of the information was seen...
    District want access to...
    programme/events/[strike]payments/youth member personal details[/strike]/badge records etc etc)
    Supposedly to monitor each sections programme and badge,ie challenge badge progress, and to ensure that sections/groups are following the scout program

    The issue is that while we all have 12 months access to OSM gold+ we dont know when that will expire, or if it will be renewed, and different section leaders are using OSM differently to suit their needs.
    One section in the group has a few leaders who "dont do computers, or smartphones" Whilstthey can be contacted via email, anything beyond the basics, systems such as OSM and even the adult membership database compass would be tricky.
    Most of the other sections in the group do not use the programme side of OSM

  13. #115
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    I would allow programme/events - indeed it's public on our website interfaced from OSM so they can just look there so need no OSM access!

    Anything with YP personal details (even names), no chance (so no badge records). Use the dashboard for summary information, which is what our District does.

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  15. #116
    Senior Member Airobat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
    Supposedly to monitor each sections programme and badge,ie challenge badge progress, and to ensure that sections/groups are following the scout program
    Which started me wondering what would happen if a group or section weren't up to snuff (whatever that level actually is). Would they be called into the headmasters study and given a good talking at or would somebody with super powers be parachuted in to fix things. There's no point in collecting information if there is no need or consequence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Airobat View Post
    Which started me wondering what would happen if a group or section weren't up to snuff (whatever that level actually is). Would they be called into the headmasters study and given a good talking at or would somebody with super powers be parachuted in to fix things. There's no point in collecting information if there is no need or consequence.
    OSM probably isn't the tool to identify how a section is doing. And I don't think we (as a movement) should ignore sections which aren't delivering a good programme to the movements vision. Sometimes it's resource constrained which is understood and can be supported, sometimes simply that leaders think they can run a section exactly as they wish regardless.

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