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Thread: OSM compulsory?

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    OSM compulsory?

    Hi
    If GSl wants us to use OSM is it compulsory?
    I don't like it at all, its not time saving, it takes more time than record cards, which are old school I know. But I don't have time to turn a 5 min job updating cards into an hour long job its taking while I try OSM to keep GSL happy.

    I just want to know if we have to use it or not.

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    I think if you get down the "is it compulsory" route its not going to be helpful either way. If your GSL digs in and insists they may lose a competent leader, if you dig in and refuse then you're going to end up on their wrong side with whatever consequences come from that next time you want a favour.

    That said it may be a question of not understanding how OSM works. For example if you do an activity in a meeting, you can set that up as a programme item for that meeting, which then makes it very easy to update all the kids that were present as having completed that activity (for badge purposes) in pretty much one click. Obviously if you go in and out of each kid to do it, it will feel like it takes longer.

    Maybe the first thing to do is to sit down with the GSL and explain that you are finding it time consuming - can they help you use it more efficiently if they want to make it the default system in the group.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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    Nothing in PoR to make it so, but its a discussion you nat to have with the GSL and possibly the exec I'd think.

    I would say that if it's taking you a long time to do the updates, it may that there are better ways to use OSM.... a lot of stuff that you do "for each child" can be automated, but it's not immediately obvious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qprvks View Post
    Hi
    If GSl wants us to use OSM is it compulsory?
    I don't like it at all, its not time saving, it takes more time than record cards, which are old school I know. But I don't have time to turn a 5 min job updating cards into an hour long job its taking while I try OSM to keep GSL happy.

    I just want to know if we have to use it or not.
    You really need to talk to your GSL... there's no national rule, but the GSL probably has good reasons for wanting you to use it.

    We use it as a group and my leaders all like it and use it willingly.

    There is obviously some initial set up with OSM (ie getting kids data in there in the first place) which takes an hour or two, but I can't see why it would then be an hour long job to update it each week...

    If you use it (on a smart phone works well and you don't even need signal if you download OSM ANYWHERE onto the phone) to do your register at each meeting its then really simple to do things like award badges in bulk rather than having to write on each and every record card

    It might also not just be about saving YOU work... if your group uses it for payments it can save a huge amount of work for a treasurer having to cross check cheques and cash etc, and it also means census takes 2 minutes to complete rather than having to work out ages from record cards etc.
    Dan Spencer

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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qprvks View Post
    Hi
    If GSl wants us to use OSM is it compulsory?
    I don't like it at all, its not time saving, it takes more time than record cards, which are old school I know. But I don't have time to turn a 5 min job updating cards into an hour long job its taking while I try OSM to keep GSL happy.

    I just want to know if we have to use it or not.
    i ask that my section leaders keep it up to date with absolutely basic info and mark kids as left etc.

    it takes them minutes per month to do that.

    As GSL, i contact the parents where needed to get them to update their info themselves.

    But! I no longer update any other membership list so the only way to do subs, group emails etc is via OSM so it is not an unreasonable request.

    It is no more than a few minutes per month. I do anything more than the basics for any leader who doesn't want to use it.

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    With training it is quicker, assuming that you plan ahead.

    I like it as I get to see what is going on in each of our sections without having to have copies of programmes sent to me.

    We also contact families where children haven't been for a few weeks as well as Gift Aid, keeping parents details up to date etc.
    Jonathan Bloor
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    Group Scout Leader - 4th Ashby de la Zouch

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    Oh, I should probably add. You may have just asked your question in what could be referred to as the Unofficial OSM Fan Club!

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    Is it compulsory? No - but your GSL can decide that is how they want it done, and you will need to speak with them.

    But if its more time consuming than record cards, you're using it wrong. For me, it's a massive timesaver. I can say that people have completed parts of badges easily - a few minutes when I set up my programme will then save me hours marking that a YP has completed it when they attend that meeting. It tells me when badges are due, so I don't have to try and remember it myself. It makes it easy to bulk-email parents and set up events. Essentially, it means that I don't have to spend hours on administration. Trust me - automation is your friend.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Secretary and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    I'd be with the OP. Simple record cards or a wall chart can be completed in minutes. Digital records can take an age.

    I'm trying OSM again, but we don't have access to wifi at our meeting place, my mobile is carp and I hate using it for internet access, so everything has to be done manually, and then copied over to OSM. I'm not sure that I can see the point.

    I tried to get the group using OSM when I was GSL and we had superfast broadband in the hall, but it just didn't happen. As a precursor for Compass, I could see the problems before they even launched it. If people CBA using it, then it will not work. OSM or Compass.
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    I don't think I'm using it wrong. Someone else added all the yps for me. These are the extra jobs that take up my time: writing out the programme on osm, linking stuff up on the register, copying the register to the osm. Takes ages. Old way is just a quick 5 min job when I get a free 5 mins during a game or something.
    I don't understand how it saves hours, I didn't spend hours!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Most other sections don't like it either, so hoping they will say something to gsl first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    I'd be with the OP. Simple record cards or a wall chart can be completed in minutes. Digital records can take an age.

    I'm trying OSM again, but we don't have access to wifi at our meeting place, my mobile is carp and I hate using it for internet access, so everything has to be done manually, and then copied over to OSM. I'm not sure that I can see the point.

    I tried to get the group using OSM when I was GSL and we had superfast broadband in the hall, but it just didn't happen. As a precursor for Compass, I could see the problems before they even launched it. If people CBA using it, then it will not work. OSM or Compass.
    OSM Anywhere doesn't require internet connection. It is uploaded when you connect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by qprvks View Post
    I don't think I'm using it wrong. Someone else added all the yps for me. These are the extra jobs that take up my time: writing out the programme on osm, linking stuff up on the register, copying the register to the osm. Takes ages. Old way is just a quick 5 min job when I get a free 5 mins during a game or something.
    I don't understand how it saves hours, I didn't spend hours!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Most other sections don't like it either, so hoping they will say something to gsl first.
    It shouldn't take long! I think it took me about 15 minutes to put my programme on OSM, including linking all the badges.

    Printed records are awful, easily lost, and contact details are all on OSM along with your register so if the person with those records isn't there and there's a problem everyone else can still access them!
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Secretary and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    What is the problem the GSL is trying to solve by trying to force you all onto OSM?

    To be honest, I would have thought the drive to use OSM would have been more likely to come from a section rather than "from above".

    It sounds like you're doing stuff twice? Once on paper, and then once on OSM? You have my sympathies, OSM works well if you can work more or less the same way as OSM does. Part of it taking ages may be because you aren't using it in the right way, part of it taking ages might be just not being used to it. For all the computer literate OSM fan boys on here, it's not that easy to work out from scratch without any training or help.

    Ian
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    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    What is the problem the GSL is trying to solve by trying to force you all onto OSM?

    To be honest, I would have thought the drive to use OSM would have been more likely to come from a section rather than "from above".

    It sounds like you're doing stuff twice? Once on paper, and then once on OSM? You have my sympathies, OSM works well if you can work more or less the same way as OSM does. Part of it taking ages may be because you aren't using it in the right way, part of it taking ages might be just not being used to it. For all the computer literate OSM fan boys on here, it's not that easy to work out from scratch without any training or help.

    Ian
    me? i was fixing a ******* job trying to collect payments from 178 youth members across 7 sections plus gift aid on top.

    OSM does that.

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    You must have printed copy's of emergencies details though aslchris?

    Don't know what gsl is hoping to get out of it.

    I'm doing osm this term as a "I'll try it", but I am keeping records upto date too as its a 5 min job and I will go back to it after I have proven I tried osm.

    everyone keeps saying I'm not using it right. I don't think people were using record cards right if they lost them or found time consuming. I know its old fashioned but it works and is easy! All leaders can use them if section leader away, old people and young people can write a date in a box, not just people with latest ipad.

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    To be fair I don't use MyScout, nor put my programme on OSM - I don't find those features time-savers. I do put the register on, but I'm not actually sure why I do, scanning it to PDF and saving it would be quicker and achieve the same thing. Meanwhile I find adding badge requirements manually just as quick.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by qprvks View Post
    You must have printed copy's of emergencies details though aslchris?
    I do, but there is no requirement to do so.

    I don't think people were using record cards right if they lost them or found time consuming. I know its old fashioned but it works and is easy! All leaders can use them if section leader away, old people and young people can write a date in a box, not just people with latest ipad.
    I update OSM when I get home, never on site. It can be used on any PC or tablet.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Record cards are fine until you need to get an overview of how many of your Scouts have done a given thing. Meanwhile a poster on the wall is fine until you want to do some planning away from your HQ.

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