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Thread: Group Administrators

  1. #1
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Group Administrators

    I feel a little dissapointed with Wayne's response to this question. He refers to a previous reply however it fails to recognise the fact that many GSLs are relying on their Group Admin for such tasks - probably appointing them with such a task in mind, not forgetting the rest of the paperwork they are underneath.
    We all understand the phased introduction approach, HOWEVER phase 2 NEEDS to include those such as Group Admins. I mean - How Difficult Can it Be?

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

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    Yes, I am similarly disappointed with this approach.

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    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    I agree. In many Groups there is no GSL - just someone with another appointment who manages the Group (i.e. like me, an SL) who was given a Group Admin role for Compass.

    I would have thought getting access to the Groups was more urgent than many commissioner roles
    In between roles/helping out where I can......

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    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Sadly there are admins in the groups, and districts, to whom the title was bestowed to keep them Scouting.

    I've known of at least one group badge secretary that appeared as an admin on the system ..... do we really want all admins on C*****s?

    Sadly the system doesn't seem to allow for enough manipulation beyond role
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kendall View Post
    I agree. In many Groups there is no GSL - just someone with another appointment who manages the Group (i.e. like me, an SL) who was given a Group Admin role for Compass.

    I would have thought getting access to the Groups was more urgent than many commissioner roles
    If you're recorded in Compass as being "Group Scout Leader (Acting)" then it is my understanding that you'll be given access to Compass at the same time as GSLs.

    If the Group doesn't have a GSL and doesn't have a GSL(Acting) then the DC should be performing the GSL role and so will have access. The system falls down, however, where a DC has 'fudged' the vacancy for a GSL by appointing someone as Group Administrator. As this is a support role (to the Group Exec) this person won't get access at the same time as GSLs. If you're performing the role of GSL then suggest you ask your DC to appoint you as GSL(Acting).


    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Sadly the system doesn't seem to allow for enough manipulation beyond role
    Correct, access to the system is defined by role. Or, rather, the role that Compass has been told you have.


    Paul

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    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    One thing is for sure C*****s has certainly highlighted how many groups are lacking IT literate GSLs or missing GSLs totally!
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

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    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulArthurs View Post
    If you're recorded in Compass as being "Group Scout Leader (Acting)" then it is my understanding that you'll be given access to Compass at the same time as GSLs.

    If the Group doesn't have a GSL and doesn't have a GSL(Acting) then the DC should be performing the GSL role and so will have access. The system falls down, however, where a DC has 'fudged' the vacancy for a GSL by appointing someone as Group Administrator. As this is a support role (to the Group Exec) this person won't get access at the same time as GSLs. If you're performing the role of GSL then suggest you ask your DC to appoint you as GSL(Acting).




    Correct, access to the system is defined by role. Or, rather, the role that Compass has been told you have.


    Paul
    To suggest a DC has "fudged" a vacancy for a GSL is a bit insulting to DCs. It could be that the DC has not been able to find anyone to take on the role or all those that could are currently in Section Leader roles (and people have not been found to replace them so they could take on the GSL role). We are not exactly overrun with volunteers beating a path to our doors !
    In between roles/helping out where I can......

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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulArthurs View Post
    If you're recorded in Compass as being "Group Scout Leader (Acting)" then it is my understanding that you'll be given access to Compass at the same time as GSLs.

    If the Group doesn't have a GSL and doesn't have a GSL(Acting) then the DC should be performing the GSL role and so will have access. The system falls down, however, where a DC has 'fudged' the vacancy for a GSL by appointing someone as Group Administrator. As this is a support role (to the Group Exec) this person won't get access at the same time as GSLs. If you're performing the role of GSL then suggest you ask your DC to appoint you as GSL(Acting).


    Correct, access to the system is defined by role. Or, rather, the role that Compass has been told you have.

    Paul
    That is not a "fudge" by the DC. AIUI, the DC does not have the power to appointment a Group Administrator, as that role is line managed by the Group Chairman and approved by GEC, which is the "Relevant Commissioner or Body" for this appointment. I would refer you to the table in POR - The Appointments Process.

    I am surprised that you made such a fundamental error!
    Peter

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kendall View Post
    To suggest a DC has "fudged" a vacancy for a GSL is a bit insulting to DCs. It could be that the DC has not been able to find anyone to take on the role or all those that could are currently in Section Leader roles (and people have not been found to replace them so they could take on the GSL role). We are not exactly overrun with volunteers beating a path to our doors !

    No intention to insult DCs. The 'fudge' I was referring to was where the DC asks a Leader to effectively perform all (or most) of the duties of a GSL without appointing them at GSL(Acting). Compass comes along, the individual doesn't have access to records outside their section, and so someone fudges the issue by adding the role 'Group Administrator' to their record.

    Paul

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    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulArthurs View Post
    No intention to insult DCs. The 'fudge' I was referring to was where the DC asks a Leader to effectively perform all (or most) of the duties of a GSL without appointing them at GSL(Acting). Compass comes along, the individual doesn't have access to records outside their section, and so someone fudges the issue by adding the role 'Group Administrator' to their record.

    Paul
    OK - I see what you are saying. As an SL, when Compass came along I did ask the then Dist Secretary to create an additional role of GSL (Acting) but she gave me GA instead .

    It is my intention to undertake GSL training (the idea being that I continue as SL or GSL depending on who else we can recruit into the Group to do one of the roles)
    In between roles/helping out where I can......

  15. #11
    Senior Member David Kendall's Avatar
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    There you go then, no such role in Compass as Acting :-

    I want to add a Member in an ‘Acting’ role, e.g. acting GSL or acting DC, as a Member’s line manager. However, they do not appear as an available option to select. Why is this?
    Categories: Adding Adults and Roles Joining Managing Roles
    It is only possible to assign Members with substantive roles as line managers within Compass and not those in acting roles. For example, it will let you assign a GSL but not an acting GSL or a DC but not an acting DC. Unfortunately this is a limitation of the system.

    If they have an acting role, please keep a local record of who the line manager is. You do not need to record a line manager on Compass in order to make a role full.
    In between roles/helping out where I can......

  16. #12
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Simply solution then, appoint anyone in an acting role to the full role and keep a local record of who is actually in an acting position. This will enable them to carry out more of the functions of the role whilst they are acting and keep a proper record of who is fulfilling what role currently

    Peter Andrews ESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Simply solution then, appoint anyone in an acting role to the full role and keep a local record of who is actually in an acting position. This will enable them to carry out more of the functions of the role whilst they are acting and keep a proper record of who is fulfilling what role currently

    A better solution would be for Compass to be updated to reflect the roles "Group Scout Leader (Acting)" [POR 3.42 c i], acting DC [POR 4.44 a v] and acting CC [POR 5.35 a vi]. These roles are too important for the people performing the roles not to have the required access to Compass.

    Paul

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  19. #14
    No mountain too high PeterSheppard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Kendall View Post
    There you go then, no such role in Compass as Acting
    There is a role of GSL (Acting), DC (Acting) etc, and those roles have appropriate permissions for their capacity. They cannot, however, be selected as the line manager on another person's record.
    Assistant Area Commissioner (Activities) - Gwent

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterSheppard View Post
    There is a role of GSL (Acting), DC (Acting) etc, and those roles have appropriate permissions for their capacity. They cannot, however, be selected as the line manager on another person's record.
    That contradicts itself! If my DC (Acting - as is the case at present) is genuinely acting in that role then he is the line manager to the GSL's in the district or to the section leaders if no GSL in place. If Compass cannot record that then those roles cannot have the appropriate permissions.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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