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Thread: New Scout Group - Membership fees

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    I like to think it's more about welcome to due diligence and common sense!
    I don't think people get into Scouting with the fine detail of the ever changing POR at the forefront of their minds.

    I also don't think it's too much to expect that in an organisation that has at its core the 'Laws' it does, that we at least try to abide by them.

    Some times its as if the Tories have taken over.

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    If everyone in Scouting was paid, POR would soon thin down. The incredible bureaucracy is only possible because of volunteers.

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    ADC (Support) & DMM mediamanager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I don't think people get into Scouting with the fine detail of the ever changing POR at the forefront of their minds.
    Not sure that the rules regarding membership subscriptions has changed that much in POR over the last 20-30 years!

    Somebody somewhere should have been highlighting the monies issue - if not then there should be some serious wrist slapping taking place.

    You don't buy a car / house if you can't afford the running costs.
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

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    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil Williams View Post
    If everyone in Scouting was paid, POR would soon thin down. The incredible bureaucracy is only possible because of volunteers.
    I think its self fueling too, people who already like a good dose of bureaucracy are drawn to it - it just ends up feeding off itself.

    Instead of looking at it objectively and thinking; 'well that seems like it could be a problem - we should fix it', instead we've got folk saying; 'tough, those are the rules, don't expect any sympathy'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Not sure that the rules regarding membership subscriptions has changed that much in POR over the last 20-30 years!

    Somebody somewhere should have been highlighting the monies issue - if not then there should be some serious wrist slapping taking place.

    You don't buy a car / house if you can't afford the running costs.
    See above.


  6. #20
    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Not sure if you were referring to my original post but to set up a whole group you require the backing of the district - it's not inappropriate to assume that this support would stretch to advice on funding and expenses due in the early stages.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I like to think it's more about welcome to due diligence and common sense!
    One would like to thing so, wouldn't we? But how many times have we seen demonstrated on these pages the lack of support from District for Groups. In an ideal world what you say would be true, but very many groups are in a far from ideal world and there is a big difference between "the backing of the District" and guidance and support.
    Peter

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  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa_broon74 View Post
    I don't think people get into Scouting with the fine detail of the ever changing POR at the forefront of their minds.

    I also don't think it's too much to expect that in an organisation that has at its core the 'Laws' it does, that we at least try to abide by them.

    Some times its as if the Tories have taken over.
    A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property - ie. applies due diligence and common sense...
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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  10. #22
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    I am finding reading this thread incredibly sad!

    Why would a new group not be supported by the district when it starts up.

    Why would a new section not be supported by the group (if they have the funds, or failing that the district)

    We have opened new sections every september for the last three years - the final one will open next September. Each is given a budget for the section... and we also within the group budget to cover the costs of uniforms, training, any other expenses incurred, etc. All kit (unless bought for a very specific sectional activity/craft) is bought by group anyway, and AMS comes from group. We would not open a new section if we didnt think we could afford it.

    Our AMS is roughly 1 terms subs, so any subs coming into the group in the spring term essentially go to cover AMS - that term's subs is ringfenced as it comes in as untouchable for anything else. If they are a member on 31st Jan then they will be paying their subs on 1st Feb, so we never have an issue.

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

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  12. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property - ie. applies due diligence and common sense...
    I agree ..... shock gasp horror!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    I am finding reading this thread incredibly sad!

    Why would a new group not be supported by the district when it starts up.

    Why would a new section not be supported by the group (if they have the funds, or failing that the district)

    We have opened new sections every september for the last three years - the final one will open next September. Each is given a budget for the section... and we also within the group budget to cover the costs of uniforms, training, any other expenses incurred, etc. All kit (unless bought for a very specific sectional activity/craft) is bought by group anyway, and AMS comes from group. We would not open a new section if we didnt think we could afford it.

    Our AMS is roughly 1 terms subs, so any subs coming into the group in the spring term essentially go to cover AMS - that term's subs is ringfenced as it comes in as untouchable for anything else. If they are a member on 31st Jan then they will be paying their subs on 1st Feb, so we never have an issue.
    I've opened new sections in September too (fits the school year) and also in January.

    In all cases we considered the implications from the outset.

    No new project - whether in the business, personal, or voluntary world - should be attempted without considering the factors .... especially monetary.
    In the example we're being given it is showing that somebody has let the ball drop and this is now causing a group to struggle.

    Why, though, is there a need to approach Wayne?!
    Have all other avenues been explored?
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
    Cub SA - 3rd SV Scholes Scout Group
    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

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  14. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by recneps View Post
    I am finding reading this thread incredibly sad!

    Why would a new group not be supported by the district when it starts up.

    Why would a new section not be supported by the group (if they have the funds, or failing that the district)

    We have opened new sections every september for the last three years - the final one will open next September. Each is given a budget for the section... and we also within the group budget to cover the costs of uniforms, training, any other expenses incurred, etc. All kit (unless bought for a very specific sectional activity/craft) is bought by group anyway, and AMS comes from group. We would not open a new section if we didnt think we could afford it.

    Our AMS is roughly 1 terms subs, so any subs coming into the group in the spring term essentially go to cover AMS - that term's subs is ringfenced as it comes in as untouchable for anything else. If they are a member on 31st Jan then they will be paying their subs on 1st Feb, so we never have an issue.
    No new group or section should be opened unless the district or group has the appropriate funds to support it in getting going, including equipment and capitation.
    Chris Hawes, District Media Manager, Watford North Scout District and Watford Scouts; Group Treasurer and Webmaster, 9th North Watford Scout Group.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Not sure that the rules regarding membership subscriptions has changed that much in POR over the last 20-30 years!
    It would appear that 10 months ago there was a significant change in the provisions regarding membership subs for new groups!

    It would be great if Districts worked properly and were able to offer proper support to their groups - maybe one day I'll experience that. You'd hope that a group starting a new section would be doing so with some planning and have built a war chest to do so - a new group isn't going to find that so easy.

    By all means encourage planning but at the same time lets have systems that make volunteers lives in making those plans as easy as possible. We want new groups and new sections - we need to be spotting the unnecessary obstacles and going at them with an axe not sitting around saying "You should have known"
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property - ie. applies due diligence and common sense...
    Not going to start quoting Scout laws back at you; its so obvious, if I needed to, there would be no point.

  19. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    ...and going at them with an axe not sitting around saying "You should have known"
    Not a case of "you" by more about "somebody"!
    Mark Pullen
    Bradford South District (ADC (Support) & DMM)
    Trustee - 7th SV Gomersal Scout Group

    Formerly:
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    Hove Edge Scout Group (GSL, Trustee)
    West Yorkshire Scout County (ACC Cubs, Agent 2:007, County Secretary, County MM, Gang Show Secretary, Gang Show Media)
    Keighley District (ADC Cubs, ADC Beavers, DMM, Trustee)
    8th Keighley Scout Group (ACSL, CSL, GSL, Group Chair)

    All posts made by myself are of a personal nature.

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  21. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    No new group or section should be opened unless the district or group has the appropriate funds to support it in getting going, including equipment and capitation.
    That's all true but doesn't really help the the original asker of the question to Wayne, who is in a situation, and needs to get out of it.
    Ian Wilkins
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  22. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by mediamanager View Post
    Not a case of "you" by more about "somebody"!
    Fair enough - I think the point still is though that unless we can fill most of the gaps in the support structure it might be better to have a less challenging system.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

  23. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASLChris View Post
    No new group or section should be opened unless the district or group has the appropriate funds to support it in getting going, including equipment and capitation.
    Not sure if thats true,its down to persiverance and hard work,I started without a bean in January no help from our group or District,so far i have managed to get
    funds just short of 1300,and purchased equipment for our first camp,lots of letters,form filling,networking and sheer ****** mindedness to get the job done.

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