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Thread: Daily Wail Article

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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Daily Wail Article

    Tony

    I've seen that article as well and did a bit of googling. It appears to have been generated by a "think tank" called The Manifesto Club. They appear to be a libertarian political group although, unusually for that side of things, come from the far left rather than the right with their founder linked to marxists and the workers revolutionary party. Extremely odd part of the political spectrum to be linking itself with scouting or the daily mail! I would suggest that this is something that has simply been jumped on inorder to push their own agenda and I would seriously doubt if this was backed by Gilwell.

    The video, while actually quite good iMHO, seems to be a montage of bits from previous publically available material on the TSA youtube channel. It could be an official TSA video but I can't find it anywhere.

    I would suggest some hijacking is going on here and that The Manifesto Club is an organisation to be treated with some caution and kept at arms length.

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    I saw it and read it as usual TSA double speech.On one hand being burdened with safeguarding,red tape and over protection and then tightening the requirements itself.After all which organisation won't accept transferable cubs and which insists all adults on a camp have cubs even if their not in charge of young people.(and yet still allow others to camp on scout campsites).

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    Quote Originally Posted by scarlet pimp View Post
    I saw it and read it as usual TSA double speech.
    First things first Scarlet, is it in fact from the TSA ?

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    Tony even if it's not the actions of the TSA in public and in practice are different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    Tony

    I've seen that article as well and did a bit of googling. It appears to have been generated by a "think tank" called The Manifesto Club. They appear to be a libertarian political group although, unusually for that side of things, come from the far left rather than the right with their founder linked to marxists and the workers revolutionary party. Extremely odd part of the political spectrum to be linking itself with scouting or the daily mail! I would suggest that this is something that has simply been jumped on inorder to push their own agenda and I would seriously doubt if this was backed by Gilwell.
    In which case Gilwell might want to clarify their position.

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    ASL Kev's Avatar
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    Is this the article you mean: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-leaders.html

    I would put lack of volunteers down to most adults in this country currently thinking they are always too busy (apart of course from always finding time to respond to every ping of their mobile phone) and that TSA have created a demand from young people without first recruiting leaders.

    As per Explorers in shorts, it looks very staged - a line of Explorers all wearing very similar uniform. In my experience that just doesn't happen.

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Commented on this on FB.

    It is a crock.

    TSA allows good people to walk away and does nothing about it. When whole teams of leaders quit, there is usually a damned good reason. When whole bunches of kids quit with them, there ar even more serious reasons - and no-one ever asks the question why. It just gets called a clash of personalities. It isn't, it is bad management.

    I know of at lest 15 GROUPS , led by ex-TSA Leaders who all quit over the politics and bullying and in not one case was there an investigation as to why. One might say that if the issue were a DC 0 then getting shot of the DC would be a better solution than getting shot of a whole bunch of Leaders and kids - especially if they then set up an independent group.

    Just to labour the point - these have usually been Leader who built up strong Groups, who built up resources, even built new Scout huts - and things got so bad that they walked away and started from scratch with absolutely nothing but their wits and the support of their young people. TSA needs to hold an inquiry into why this is happening.

    The Safeguarding issue is just an excuse. The reality is that if that puts people off, they would be crap leaders anyway, IMHO.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





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    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    I would suggest some hijacking is going on here and that The Manifesto Club is an organisation to be treated with some caution and kept at arms length.
    Message from Red Six;

    You can't guarantee a kill at arms length, let us get closer and we will sort them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kev View Post
    Yep, that's the one, read who is saying what very carefully, all may not be what it seems.

    What is the chief scout saying and what has been constructed around his statement ?

    Is The Scout Association calling concern about child abuse hysterical ?
    Last edited by Tony Ransley; 02-05-2016 at 03:33 PM.

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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Tony

    Exactly. I think we have an example of an organisation, in this case The Manifesto Club, with an axe to grind who have cobbled together a story by splicing a few convenient out of context quotes into its own story. It's then sent this to probably every national newspaper over a bank holiday weekend when they are looking to fill column inches and web space without having to pay their staff over time to do their own research. Result is a quick copy and paste from an over worked and over paid sub editor. Hey presto you have your story in the daily mail!

    Given the stories in the news last year about legal action over historic sexual abuse TSA are certainly not going to be saying anything about hysteria on child protection. The story they'll be telling is about rigorous but straight forward procedures (regardless of if you think they are or they really are, it's the story they will be telling)

    As I said above, even though more adults are something we'd hardly say no we want to be careful of getting into bed with organisations with political axes to grind. Down that road lies a whole world of pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    Tony

    Exactly. I think we have an example of an organisation, in this case The Manifesto Club, with an axe to grind who have cobbled together a story by splicing a few convenient out of context quotes into its own story. It's then sent this to probably every national newspaper over a bank holiday weekend when they are looking to fill column inches and web space without having to pay their staff over time to do their own research. Result is a quick copy and paste from an over worked and over paid sub editor. Hey presto you have your story in the daily mail!

    Given the stories in the news last year about legal action over historic sexual abuse TSA are certainly not going to be saying anything about hysteria on child protection. The story they'll be telling is about rigorous but straight forward procedures (regardless of if you think they are or they really are, it's the story they will be telling)

    As I said above, even though more adults are something we'd hardly say no we want to be careful of getting into bed with organisations with political axes to grind. Down that road lies a whole world of pain.
    I will of course check with Gilwell as to any involvement they had in this story if it is none, what would you suggest TSA does about it ?

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    DBS checks aren't really the issue - plenty have people have had multiple ones done. The problem (and I tend to agree that this article is a stalking horse for other agendas so not really about Scouting at all) in Scouting is the hassle of volunteering. Ask a few parents if they mind giving up a couple of hours every other week to help run a section and you'll get some positives. Tell them they require a DBS and they'll possibly blink a bit but not be too bothered. Tell them they have to do minimum compulsory training and a few will say "stuff that". Tell them about the whole beauracracy that goes into stuff like permits, POR, wood badge training and most will run for the hills. Ewan is also right - the management processes around people management and volunteer care are poor with decent people kicked out for being round pegs in square holes rather than finding them a round hole to be useful in.
    Does anyone know what's going on?

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    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    I will of course check with Gilwell as to any involvement they had in this story if it is none, what would you suggest TSA does about it ?
    I'd suggest doing absolutely nothing. While the DM is widely read this story hasn't really done any serious damage. Public reaction will just draw in more readers. Maybe just a note to The Manifesto Club wit Simon Carter's phone number should they ever want an official quote.

    Then walk away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mang21 View Post
    DBS checks aren't really the issue - plenty have people have had multiple ones done. The problem (and I tend to agree that this article is a stalking horse for other agendas so not really about Scouting at all) in Scouting is the hassle of volunteering. Ask a few parents if they mind giving up a couple of hours every other week to help run a section and you'll get some positives. Tell them they require a DBS and they'll possibly blink a bit but not be too bothered. Tell them they have to do minimum compulsory training and a few will say "stuff that". Tell them about the whole beauracracy that goes into stuff like permits, POR, wood badge training and most will run for the hills. Ewan is also right - the management processes around people management and volunteer care are poor with decent people kicked out for being round pegs in square holes rather than finding them a round hole to be useful in.
    That all sounds so familiar, but... I disagree with your agreement with me. Of those who have left and gone independent, it has often been the case of round pegs in round holes and doing very well in those roles. The pressures that have led to resignations and the creation of new groups have been for "other" reasons.

    I saw the introduction of more and more local rules and some VERY poor management led to an attack on my role, which I was doing better than anyone else locally ( according to the very DC who led to my resignation). Or, perhaps he managed the situation perfectly for his own reasons - I don't know. ( I do know that he had no expectation of the unintended consequences of his actions).

    Elsewhere - in Sutton Coldfield a whole group quit over disputes with the District. That Group now has 250 youth members and 45 ( yes forty five) adult leaders. In Kent, a whole group in dispute with the DC quit and went independent. There are similar stories around the UK. In almost every case the Groups and people who have walked away have been very good at what they do and have often proven that as independents.

    The issue is people with axes to grind - retribution for past acts, petty jealousy, appeasing the lowest common denominator. I don't know but it is not always a case of square pegs in round holes. Often there is more to it... One Group who had mismanaged their business for some years suddenly realised that their hall needed a new roof ( I can say this now that I don't have to worry about them). They had done no fundraising in 20 years. I went to them ( as I was somewhat successful in raising funds) and offered to assist them in applying for funding. I got no real response. A month later I spoke to the LiC in person ( who had avoided giving me an answer). He then told me that, "Thanks for the offer, but accepting your help would upset District and we don't want to fall out with them." Now, given that "District" consisted of a Treasurer, whom I knew had no issue with me raising funds, The Secretary ( whom I knew nothing of at that point), the Dc and the DDC. It became rather obvious that the DC and or the DDC had made it clear that they were unhappy with any assistance coming from myself. So, rather than accept the help of someone who could raise money at the drop of a hat, they cowed to the bully boy tactics of the District. There were people who didn't like the fact that we raised funds through our own hard work and grant applications and they held that against us.

    In year two of Navigators, our income is greater than that of the last reported accounts of any Scout Group in the District - rental and insurance aside - every penny has been spent on equipment and activities for the benefit of our members. Now then, who was the square peg in the round hole... me and my team, or the DC?
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Senior Member Puzzledbyadream's Avatar
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    I'm a lefty libertarian who concerns myself with scouting... This seems a bit odd though.
    Nyika (formerly Bagheera)

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