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Thread: RE: Was the Confederate flag been flown at Gilwell ?

  1. #16
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    I hear that the Cubs really enjoyed the flag burning workshop.

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  3. #17
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    Thanks to merryweather for the historical perspective on the flags of the Confederacy a thoroughly interesting read.

    So Barry Obama objects to the flag (he changed his name to Barrak to appeal to the middle class) and the flag has racist and supremacist overtones, should that mean it should be banned from ever being seen? I honestly do not know the answer to that, I personally have no objection to it, just like I have no objection to the Union Flag. But, I am English and to me my Nations Flag is the English Flag of St George; who was probably Italian and slew a dragon… I digress…

    We have become a society that takes the slightest insult from any source and however intended, recently the MP Pat Gleeson apologised for calling a racist a racist. The world has gone PC mental afraid that someone somewhere may just take offence and if they do apologies are demanded. It’s time we all toughened up a bit, took things not so literally and accept the fact that sometimes people do and say things that are not intended to cause offence and shouldn’t be taken that way.

    I once worked for an Austrian company I introduced the global head of my division to ‘Allo ‘Allo I explained that it was British humour, she watched it and thought it funny. The biggest laugh was every time we met her after that she would always say “I vwas just pissing by and vwant a café” in an outrageous mock French accent, at the start of her presentations it would be “listen very carefully I shall say this only once”, and after a few drinks she would insist on calling me Rene.

    Perhaps we should spend less time finding things to be insulted about and spend more time finding the funny side of life
    Richard Fenton
    CSL 1st Hartburn Sea Scouts (Graham Mellanby's Own)
    www.hartburnseascouts.org


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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    Thanks to merryweather for the historical perspective on the flags of the Confederacy a thoroughly interesting read.

    So Barry Obama objects to the flag (he changed his name to Barrak to appeal to the middle class) and the flag has racist and supremacist overtones, should that mean it should be banned from ever being seen? I honestly do not know the answer to that, I personally have no objection to it, just like I have no objection to the Union Flag. But, I am English and to me my Nations Flag is the English Flag of St George; who was probably Italian and slew a dragon… I digress…

    We have become a society that takes the slightest insult from any source and however intended, recently the MP Pat Gleeson apologised for calling a racist a racist. The world has gone PC mental afraid that someone somewhere may just take offence and if they do apologies are demanded. It’s time we all toughened up a bit, took things not so literally and accept the fact that sometimes people do and say things that are not intended to cause offence and shouldn’t be taken that way.

    I once worked for an Austrian company I introduced the global head of my division to ‘Allo ‘Allo I explained that it was British humour, she watched it and thought it funny. The biggest laugh was every time we met her after that she would always say “I vwas just pissing by and vwant a café” in an outrageous mock French accent, at the start of her presentations it would be “listen very carefully I shall say this only once”, and after a few drinks she would insist on calling me Rene.

    Perhaps we should spend less time finding things to be insulted about and spend more time finding the funny side of life
    Would you laugh if it was the Swatika and look on the funny side of that?

  5. #19
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    The Fylfot was used in Scouting for many years

    http://www.scoutcollecting.co.uk/sss...ks_badges.html
    Richard Fenton
    CSL 1st Hartburn Sea Scouts (Graham Mellanby's Own)
    www.hartburnseascouts.org


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  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    The Fylfot was used in Scouting for many years

    http://www.scoutcollecting.co.uk/sss...ks_badges.html
    And Baden Powell was clued up enough on PR and politics to reluctantly change it when it became associated with racism and values incompatible with scouting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    St George; who was probably Italian and slew a dragon…
    Probably Turkish and defied paganism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    So the flag has racist and supremacist overtones, should that mean it should be banned from ever being seen?
    No it means it should not be given pride of place on scout campsites or be used as a backdrop for the chief scout when we are constantly stating we are not a whites only organisation.

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    big chris (30-05-2016)

  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    No it means it should not be given pride of place on scout campsites or be used as a backdrop for the chief scout when we are constantly stating we are not a whites only organisation.
    I wouldn't think it was placed there deliberately to cause offence, or to make a political statement, but clearly an oversight and/or poor judgement. The PR department were way too busy making sure no Scout uniforms were visible.

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  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    No it means it should not be given pride of place on scout campsites or be used as a backdrop for the chief scout when we are constantly stating we are not a whites only organisation.
    Then we shouldn't use the flags of UK, France, Spain, or USA who all at one time allowed and supported slavery. I have never seen TSA constantly stating that we are not a whites only organisation perhaps you could show a few quotes for this?

    If the Confederate Flag was used in the backdrop I am sure there was no intent to support white supremacists or racism, just like I am sure it was not given pride of place. Perhaps you are deliberately inflaming something to make some form of point but honestly imho there are far more important things to champion, but the only link I can find to anything on Bear being at a Cub Camp is at West Yorkshire is http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/search/?q=bear+grylls and I can’t see any flags at all on that, however they are very intolerant of the Lancashire Flag!
    Richard Fenton
    CSL 1st Hartburn Sea Scouts (Graham Mellanby's Own)
    www.hartburnseascouts.org


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  13. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by khoomei View Post
    I wouldn't think it was placed there deliberately to cause offence, or to make a political statement
    If what I saw was what I saw, then I do not believe for a moment it was intended as a political statement, my concern is that Both Bear and Scouting have their detractors and they could use such errors of judgement against us politically.

  14. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    If what I saw was what I saw, then I do not believe for a moment it was intended as a political statement, my concern is that Both Bear and Scouting have their detractors and they could use such errors of judgement against us politically.
    A fair point well made but then why raise it in such a public way, surely a better option was a PM to Wayne or an email to Gilwell. My point is that the Confederate Flag does not just represent the views of supremacists and racists.
    Richard Fenton
    CSL 1st Hartburn Sea Scouts (Graham Mellanby's Own)
    www.hartburnseascouts.org


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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    I have never seen TSA constantly stating that we are not a whites only organisation perhaps you could show a few quotes for this?
    Ann Limb October 2015.

  16. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    Ann Limb October 2015.
    Was that when she seemed pretty horrified at the dreadful boys and men in scouting?

    Yup, just googled.

    “The position of young girls and women is such at the moment that unless young boys understand what it’s like to be a young woman then you won’t get them to change their behaviour.”

    I did tweet to ask her which behaviour I was meant to be changing but no reply. So.i am still encouraging whatever monstrous behaviour she is so against.




    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Last edited by big chris; 30-05-2016 at 10:31 PM.

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  18. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    A fair point well made but then why raise it in such a public way, surely a better option was a PM to Wayne or an email to Gilwell.
    Because this is the forum where scouters can debate things which concern them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    Ann Limb October 2015.
    I thought you said it was being done constantly! It might be pedantic but I would class constantly as more than 1 quote.

    It is a fact that we attract predominantly white, middle class people. However our membership is open to anyone regardless of gender, race, age (over 6 years), ethnicity, social class or sexuality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ransley View Post
    Because this is the forum where scouters can debate things which concern them.
    Well glad to oblige by providing the debate
    Richard Fenton
    CSL 1st Hartburn Sea Scouts (Graham Mellanby's Own)
    www.hartburnseascouts.org


  20. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    My point is that the Confederate Flag does not just represent the views of supremacists and racists.
    It is not a national flag, it represented a confederation of states fighting to retain slavery and is now widely viewed by both white supremacists and their opponents as representing white supremacy.

    Knocking off now bed time.
    Last edited by Tony Ransley; 31-05-2016 at 04:34 AM.

  21. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walsallwizard View Post
    I thought you said it was being done constantly! It might be pedantic but I would class constantly as more than 1 quote.
    I thought it was pretty good for 11.30 at night

    I'm at uni to day but would refer you to the 1980's Scoutreach project archives, 1990's The Ethnic Communities Task Force Archives I will check statements made recently by Wayne Bulpitt and Matt Hyde when I get back.

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