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Thread: What we did at scouts last night...

  1. #151
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Ok why do you feel it is inappropriate for a Scout Leader to post photos of your child on a Scouting activity on a relevant online forum?
    I just do. It is something that does not seem right. There must be something in it or why would TSA advise to seek permission?

  2. #152
    GSL & AESL shiftypete's Avatar
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    Genuinely interesting. Personally I think it irrational but sort of share some of the same irrational feelings. Yet we have never had a parent object to the photos we post openly on our website of facebook groups (we do give them the opportunity to object rather than seeking permission and we also make clear we do not and can not control what youth members, parents the public etc take photos of and where they post them)

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    I just do. It is something that does not seem right. There must be something in it or why would TSA advise to seek permission?
    I think the main reason that TSA advise to seek permission is that so many other places do (including schools).

    I firmly believe TSA are wrong on the issue and are leaving themselves (and any leaders who choose to follow that particular guidance) wide open to fallout.

  4. #154
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiftypete View Post
    Genuinely interesting. Personally I think it irrational but sort of share some of the same irrational feelings. Yet we have never had a parent object to the photos we post openly on our website of facebook groups (we do give them the opportunity to object rather than seeking permission and we also make clear we do not and can not control what youth members, parents the public etc take photos of and where they post them)
    And I do get that. A website that the parents can enjoy is a bit different to photos being posted by Leaders on a forum. Would I have an issue with Leaders showing photos around in a pub and holding on to them? No. Would I have an issue with Leaders in a pub giving copies of photos out to other Leaders to keep then that would be an issue.

  5. #155
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren-M View Post
    I think the main reason that TSA advise to seek permission is that so many other places do (including schools).

    I firmly believe TSA are wrong on the issue and are leaving themselves (and any leaders who choose to follow that particular guidance) wide open to fallout.
    There are lots of things TSA state that we do not agree with. Unfortunately we do not write the rules and we are all free to leave at any time if we believe the rules are not for us.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rikki01 View Post
    There are lots of things TSA state that we do not agree with. Unfortunately we do not write the rules and we are all free to leave at any time if we believe the rules are not for us.
    I'm very much in favour of following all of the rules (some would say to a fault!). Thankfully, this one isn't a rule and I am free to ignore it!
    Last edited by Darren-M; 24-01-2017 at 10:03 PM.

  7. #157
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    I'm a bit on the fence. We don't ask for permission, because it doesn't appear to be required. We tell parents on joining that we may take pictures. However, I don't tend to use, in public places, pictures that show close-ups of individual Scouts. Obviously we do do slide shows, circulate pictures after events behind password-protected facilities, and so on.
    SL, 11th Hitchin

  8. #158
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    It's obviously an issue for some people as Rikki demonstrates. I still can't understand why some people think it's an issue.

    I do wonder if by asking questions and making a big deal of it, we make it into something to worry about when really it isn't.

    Thankfully our parents don't mind - they quite enjoy being able to see photos of their children on our fb page, particularly on camp. In fact the only complaint we have had about photos was one parent who was concerned because her child hadn't been in any photos on camp so far (purely coincidental). Soon rectified

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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren-M View Post
    I think the main reason that TSA advise to seek permission is that so many other places do (including schools).

    I firmly believe TSA are wrong on the issue and are leaving themselves (and any leaders who choose to follow that particular guidance) wide open to fallout.
    TSA are covering their backsides. The reason it isn't 'a rule' is because it could never be enforced. If they made it a rule, they'd be even more at risk.

    I think the opposition to this is probably generational - and I say that as an old git myself. I had an issue with it, but after discussing it here, have since changed my mind. Photos do often get misused online - there is absolutely nothing you can do about that - nor is there anything you can do about photos being taken and put there. I mean you could never let them leave the house I suppose...

    However, as long as no identifying details go with the photos... It seems to me, your kid might be your absolute pride & joy, the apple of your eye etc, but on the internet - its just another kid, one in a billion probably... The notion that yours will be singled out is probably inversely proportionate to their photo never ever being taken and put online somewhere in the first place.

    It does rather go against the grain (especially if you're not an avid photographer), but its what folk do these days.

  10. #160
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    Digressing....

    Last (week) at Scouts...

    We split the troop in two, (not individually, parents would complain... As in half went one way and half went the other...) We did 20 odd minutes of knife work, including safety as discussed in the other thread while the other group got the fire going using cotton balls and the fire striker. They then swapped over.

    For the last 20-30 odd minutes it was free flowing with S'mores being set a-flame round the fire using the sticks they'd sharpened up. This gives leaders the time to work one on one with the kids and really communicate - which is paying dividends, we're no longer shouting at them all the time, we're actually getting to know them - which is great.

    One of the cub leaders sent me an email earlier, he said chat at the school gate was along the lines of; the kids always come home smelling of wood smoke but parents say they really enjoy it.

    Which is nice.

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  12. #161
    Senior Member recneps's Avatar
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    Somehow yesterday I missed the sound of the can of worms of "photo permissions" being fully cranked open.

    There is no RULE within TSA that you require permission. There is an (outdated) factsheet which was written long before smartphones meant that almost everyone carried a camera in their pocket at all times - a camera with a direct link to the internet.

    For what its worth, we make clear to our parents at the time of joining that we WILL take photos and we WILL publish them on social media and the internet, and that if they have any concerns they need to talk to us. We have had no takers on the "talking to us" front.

    I cannot see how photos published on a group twitter account are any more of a risk than on escouts. In fact, as a lot of people on Escouts are fairly "anonymous" about which group they belong to, photos are probably less of a safeguarding risk than they might be when posted on a group website which also contains the meeting times and places of the group.

    It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves

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  14. #162
    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon.md View Post
    It's obviously an issue for some people as Rikki demonstrates. I still can't understand why some people think it's an issue.

    I do wonder if by asking questions and making a big deal of it, we make it into something to worry about when really it isn't.

    Thankfully our parents don't mind - they quite enjoy being able to see photos of their children on our fb page, particularly on camp. In fact the only complaint we have had about photos was one parent who was concerned because her child hadn't been in any photos on camp so far (purely coincidental). Soon rectified

    Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
    I experience both sides of this. As a Leader, I know that we do not have to ask permission, but that we should simply follow good practice. I would love to publish more photos than I do in the appropriate places, because I am a believer in shouting from the rooftops about what we do. I am very cautious about upsetting parents though

    You see, my Wife objects big time to photos of our Cub Son and Beaver Daughter being published in public (or even closed groups - she has no trust in the Internet). This has gone to the extent of asking firmly for a really great photo to be removed from the school website. I know that she does have her reasons, irrational though they may be.
    Last edited by lakes_stu; 25-01-2017 at 09:28 AM.
    All posts represent my own opinions only. In no way do they speak for anyone else, including (but not limited to) my group, district, county or HQ.

  15. #163
    Senior Member big chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lakes_stu View Post
    I can see both sides of this. As a Leader, I know that we do not have to ask permission, but that we should simply follow good practice. I would love to publish more photos than I do in the appropriate places, because I am a believer in shouting from the rooftops about what we do. I am very cautious about upsetting parents though

    However, my Wife objects big time to photos of our Cub Son and Beaver Daughter being published in public (or even closed groups - she has no trust in the Internet). This has gone to the extent of asking firmly for a really great photo to be removed from the school website. I know that she does have her reasons, irrational though they may be.
    What are those reasons?

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  16. #164
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    What are those reasons?
    Irrational. Best not to ask.
    Ian Wilkins
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  17. #165
    Senior Member lakes_stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big chris View Post
    What are those reasons?

    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
    Well, although she appreciates that there is no personal information included, and that we follow best safaguarding practice. However, her point is that when some undesirable people can get photographs by Googling for the obvious (such as schools, youth clubs, Scout groups etc), they are free to do as they wish with those photographs. I know we are adults here, but I would rather not go into further detail.

    As I say, irrational. Especially when they are free to go out in public. They are how she feels though, and I have to respect her wishes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Mind you, if someone asks me for permission, I am pretty certainly going to say yes and deal with any fallout later

    - - - Updated - - -

    Worth mentioning that she fully trusts the Leaders, Teachers etc. Its the Internet she doesnt trust...
    All posts represent my own opinions only. In no way do they speak for anyone else, including (but not limited to) my group, district, county or HQ.

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