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Thread: Shot with a sniper rifle - goodbye Scouting

  1. #1
    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    Shot with a sniper rifle - goodbye Scouting

    For those that have been following my recent threads, you may know that I've been trying to get back into the role of a CSL. I've been an ACSL for the last three years, but find it a bit underwhelming, I'm now the scouter who does the 90 minutes a week but wishes he could do more. Just had my AAC meeting (with three people I never met before) and stressed the reason I want to step up again is that the group I'm in isnt particularly youth shaped, vibrant or vaguely interesting. I turn up play two games , do what ever the Akela has decided to (which never resembles the term plan ) so its a complete surprise every week, and go home. Rinse repeat, rinse repeat. Apart from that I'm reasonably happy but asked if any vacancies came up could they contact me. Then two days later I get this:

    After careful consideration, a lengthy discussion with the AAC panel and conversations with others, I have
    reached the conclusion that you will not be appointed as Cub Scout Leader. Furthermore, this process has
    led me to review and to conclude that your current role as Assistant Cub Scout Leader with ************
    Scout Group will be cancelled with immediate effect and your membership of the Scout Association is
    therefore ended. This means that you cannot have any involvement in Scouting moving forwards, whether
    in ******shire or elsewhere, without first being approved through the National Vetting Process.

    This was from the DC who I have never met or talked to. Within two minutes of the email, my compass login was taken down, within 10 minutes I was removed from our groups facebook site (I suspect to stop me telling the parents) North Korea could learn a thing or two from the SA. Just what have I done wrong to warrant expulsion? I have appealed but I've been in Scouting long enough to know the chances of that succeeding. My main problem is that no reason has been given, his reason seems to be based on opinion and conjecture and not any facts. 11 years and 3 months and it looks like bye bye scouting.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Are you able to get to the next District or is it too far?
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

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    bernwood (01-04-2017)

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    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    On the information given...that's just crazy.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - World Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2017 - May 2018
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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    bernwood (01-04-2017)

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    I don't understand, were you trying to apply to become the CSL at the group where there is already a CSL or were you trying to become a CSL elsewhere?
    Proud Beaver Scout Leader of a bunch of ankle biters.

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    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    This is absolutely appalling. I am gob smacked. If I got a message like this I would make a real example of this man who is behaving like an unprofessional coward. This is truly revolting behaviour and no way to speak to any person, let alone a volunteer.

    All this said reading between the lines it appears as if you may have lost ears of the Leadership team and if that is the case it is probably best for you to move on. One of the biggest issues I have with Scouting is just how clicky it is. Various threads on here support this.

    I am really embarrassed that this DC has treated you with such disrespect.

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    bernwood (01-04-2017)

  10. #6
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    That is spectacular Bernwood. Truly spectacular. Not even I have been told that any future application would need to be approved at a National level. You really must have upset a few people with influence. (Not that I didn't).

    If your dismissal was not a CP issue then there are alternatives.

    You can ask HQ for a copy of your record - but I bet they censor it.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    bernwood (01-04-2017)

  12. #7
    Senior Member bernwood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kastor View Post
    Are you able to get to the next District or is it too far?
    I'm banned from every district according to this, this DC has ripped scouting from under me without even talking to me. I was looking at going down to a group I know in London, which is 45 miles away and several districts between them and mine, but this order means I have no way back in unless the appeal works and if it does I'll be putting as many miles as possible between him and me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamieson90 View Post
    I don't understand, were you trying to apply to become the CSL at the group where there is already a CSL or were you trying to become a CSL elsewhere?
    All i was asking the district was if they knew if there were any vacancies out there. I wasn't looking to muscle anyone out of a role. The AAC seemed to think it was my fault that we have an ineffectual Akela, they seemed to think that I should have magically changed the culture of the group. The leadership at my cub pack, know that I'm looking to leave to be CSL again, and there fine with the situation allowing me to carry on until I find the right vacancy. I'm really baffled where all this vitriol has come from.
    Last edited by bernwood; 01-04-2017 at 12:58 PM.

  13. #8
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    I'm really baffled where all this vitriol has come from.
    You know, sometimes you will never manage to work out why someone takes against you.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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    bernwood (01-04-2017)

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    nele
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    I know of someone who was shocked, having moved to a new region, that their 'end of role statement' from the previous district had contained some totally untrue info. which would have made a new AAC think twice about appointing them. Luckily someone noticed that the statement didn't seem to add up with other known facts, and gave him the opportunity to put the record straight.

    I would hope that you'd be given at least a chance to know what this was about, before appealing. Mistakes can happen!

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    bernwood (01-04-2017)

  17. #10
    Senior Member Kastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    I'm banned from every district according to this, this DC has ripped scouting from under me without even talking to me. I was looking at going down to a group I know in London, which is 45 miles away and several districts between them and mine, but this order means I have no way back in unless the appeal works and if it does I'll be putting as many miles as possible between him and me.
    Are you sure that it's what you think it is and not just badly worded?

    If you have your last Appointment cancelled (which they have done) it terminates your DBS, which means you have to have a new one for a new appointment i.e. go through the National Vetting Process.

    It may be you just need to be DBS'd again when you get a new appointment.
    To get more kids we need more adults - are we getting the message yet?

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    bernwood (01-04-2017)

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    Very Old Member BigBadBaloo's Avatar
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    I think you may be misreading what the DC has said (although it is not been said in the clearest way).

    What the DC seems to have done is terminated your role and your membership and this has cancelled your TSA DBS. To be active in Scouting going forward you will have to apply for a new DBS. That is how I read it.

    Nevertheless, it is a spectacularly horrible way to treat a volunteer. I believe I am right in saying that to cancel a role/membership the DC has to complete a Suspension/Cancellation form and in your position I would be asking for a copy of that.

    I would also be sending a Subject Access Request to the Group, District, County and TSA. There is a cost associated with an SAR (usually 10) and unfortunately you have to do all of them separately as despite it being one organisation TSA seem incapable of instructing it managers to comply with an SAR addressed to "head office". If you need assistance with drafting an SAR, drop me a PM.

    Of course being hit with such a bombshell, you may decide it is not worth fighting and take yourself off elsewhere. if it was me, I would be looking to make the DC's life as difficult as possible.
    Peter

    Former CSL - 2nd Bracknell


    A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step. Lao Tzu (600 BC - 531 BC)

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  21. #12
    AESL & AGSL shiftypete's Avatar
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    This seems like total madness. I have never heard of anyone who holds a role in Scouting applying for a new role in Scouting and ending up with their existing role being cancelled as well as being refused the new role.

    Quote Originally Posted by bernwood View Post
    This means that you cannot have any involvement in Scouting moving forwards, whether
    in ******shire or elsewhere, without first being approved through the National Vetting Process
    This is true of anyone without a current role in Scouting so i would not take that to mean you are banned from Scouting, the DC for whatever reason is just trying to imply that. Now whether they have given some form of adverse report such that you will not pass the CE check process is another matter.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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  23. #13
    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    may i ask for some clarity please?

    you are (were!) currently an ACSL. you have a desire to take on a CSL role.

    to whom did you make this desire known, people in your group, members of the district team, the DC?

    why were you meeting with an AAC panel, what were you applying for or was the panel convened for an appointment review? i am confused.

    if you were applying for a specific CSL role (in XXX group say) then i fail to see why an AAC panel should be convened for this purpose. surely the matter can be handled without the need for a panel, by simply looking at your record, and considering the views of the GSL (in XXX group) you were joining? sure the AAC will consider your suitability for the role but largely they are there to look at possible safeguarding issues and whether applicant support the values and principles of scouting.

    if you were not applying for a specific CSL appointment then the AAC can surely only be reviewing your appointment. were you due an appointment review or were you called for one (by the DC) for a particular reason?

    i am confused.

    i am also somewhat bemused by the DC's reply. if you were applying for a specific CSL role (in xxx group, say) and the AAC recommended you were not appointed, why do you think they then moved to review your current (as then) appointment of ACSL and find you unsuitable for that too?

    are you not sure that you have simply been dismissed?

    trying to understand all this.

    bizarre.

    whether you are in the right or not there are some people in scouting you really must try to avoid upsetting otherwise things can become somewhat 'difficult'.

    (i am never surprised by lots of things in scouting!)

    TM
    going...going...still here...just

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  25. #14
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post

    to whom did you make this desire known, people in your group, members of the district team, the DC?

    TM
    Grammar police - to who did you make this desire known, not whom, as in your sentence 'who' is the subject of the sentence.

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    Are all of your first aid, safeguarding and safety trainings up to date and current? I know that our DC is suspending leaders that don't have those specific training up to date.
    Proud Beaver Scout Leader of a bunch of ankle biters.

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