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  1. #1
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    What is "Real" Scouting?

    What is "real" scouting? I sense a certain lack of tact, but someone told me last night that Theme Park Camp just wasn't real scouting. I'm guessing what they do is in their opinion real scouting. To be honest, I found it quite hurtful, maybe I'm tired, but still, I did. Not really looking for any brown nosing, or indeed kicking a man when he's down. Not sure what I'm looking for if I'm honest.

    I guess from their point of view, when their scouting is usually out on the hills or on a river, then what's on the surface just a glorified trip to Thorpe Park is just not their bag. I suppose it's the same argument of Bushcraft Bennies v Jamboree Johnnies. Different strokes for different folks.

    Is there a line we shouldn't cross? I mean, is me occasionally having to defend TPC show it's really not a scouting activity? Or if it's not banned, game on? Is doing something for fun a good enough reason?

    Ian
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - World Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2016 - May 2017
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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  3. #2
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    "Real" Scouting is anything that the Scouts enjoy and hopefully develops them. Social skills are just as important as camping, knots, knives, etc...

    My group was recently criticised by ex-leaders because our recent camp wasn't under canvas. We did a model making camp where we built balsa wood, paper and rubber band powered planes. I needed a large breeze free space to fly them. They didn't think it was a real camp as they weren't outside - I should of had them camping and then build the models in a marquee or hire the hall just for the daytime. I was quite happy that we had a great weekend in the building. Gave us a dry build space and flying space without the extra hassle of camp building and all of the camp gear. GGGRRRR!! Either come and help or shut up!!!! Sorry - they got to me this time.


    Jonathan

    GSL

    ex-Chairman
    49th Bournemouth (St. Katherines) Air Scouts
    NSRA YPS Tutor (Air Rifles)

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  5. #3
    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Aw Jeez, Ian!

    It is patently obvious that real Scouting is done in a 1907 uniform and includs the original 7th Law. Anything else is not real Scouting. Did you really have to ask?

    I've had this thrown at me many times, some even since we set up Navigators. Our aims and methods are largely the same. it often comes down to uniform and nothing else.

    Woodcraft Folk are clear that they are NOT Scouts, but what they do is plain as the nose on your face, scouting in all but name. I would guess today the only real divide between Scouts and Woodies are the uniform and the fact that they have a more political programme.

    No-one tells me what we do isn't scouting, not to my face ( they will now!) but plenty have tried it across the way. There are two types who say what people do isn't real scouting. The first is looking for an argument. The second doesn't actually understand the aims of the movement. There is nothing else to be said about them.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



    www.upperdearnevalleynavigators.org.uk

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  7. #4
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    The great thing (IMHO) about Scouting is that it allows young people to try a broad range of activities - indoor / outdoor, sporty / creative... - so if Theme Park camp (or Model Making weekend...) is one of a range of residential offerings for the young people, say over a 2 year period that seems fine to me.
    A week of camp life is worth six months of theoretical teaching in the meeting room. Baden-Powell

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  9. #5
    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    I would think that 'real scouting' should be a mainly outdoor activity. Not exclusively but largely. If Scouts went to the cinema every week then I it would not be Scouting.

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    What Ewan said...

    Had this as well, but on the other hand - we get parents saying they don't want their kids to go camping, so its fine.

    There is a strain of person who thinks if you're not scouting a la 1957, then you're doing it wrong. You're not, they are.

    Scouting (for me) is about getting young folk out and about and building confidence and values. We haven't built a dresser or stuck up a shoe tree for years and we're none the worse for it. Last night I was explaining to a couple of Scouts why its a good idea to stay above tawdry behaviour. If someone is being horrible to you, don't let them force you down to their level, instead, rise above it.

    We'd been down the beach battering a large exercise ball at each other... Possibly not the most scouty activity... but its not just about scout salutes and canvas etc.

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  12. #7
    Senior Member CambridgeSkip's Avatar
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    Pay no heed. Scouting changes and adapts to the needs of the young people. There's place for traditional scouting, there's a place for something completely different like a theme park camp.

    Strikes me that they are doing something outdoors, that's fun, possible scares them a bit, involves meeting new people, involves social skills (queueing!), independence, making choices, organising their own time.

    When described like that is it really so different from, say, Gilwell winter camp?

    I've not been to TPC but from everything I hear about it you must put in a load of effort to make it happen.

    Don't let them grind you down.

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  14. #8
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    I've not been to TPC but from everything I hear about it you must put in a load of effort to make it happen.
    Aye, but just because you put a lot of effort into it, doesn't necessarily validate it. That said, from an organiser's point of view, the team of workers that make it happen show an awful lot of that Scouting spirit*, teamwork, and all that jazz. Pure warms the cockles it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by CambridgeSkip View Post
    Don't let them grind you down.
    Indefatigable me! Probably.

    * No. You know what I mean.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - World Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2016 - May 2017
    http://www.jambowlree.org

  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianw View Post
    Is doing something for fun a good enough reason?
    Yes. Yes it is.

  16. #10
    Senior Member Puzzledbyadream's Avatar
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    Instructions for a "real" scouting activity.

    Get Scouts
    Give them an activity

    No going to the cinema every week wouldn't be scouting but surely scouting is about new and exciting experiences. Going to the cinema once might be the first time a yp has been to the cinema. And of you ask me, a camp is a camp is a camp if it's fun and has scouts enjoying themselves. My worst ever camp was in ridge tents with big black billies and bedding rolls. Guiding though, natch.
    Nyika (formerly Bagheera)

    On hiatus.
    Archery Leader

    Scouting for All and nobody left behind!

  17. #11
    ESL and DESC ianw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzledbyadream View Post
    Going to the cinema once might be the first time a yp has been to the cinema.
    And going as scouts might well be quite a different experience than going with parents. I'm still tempted, now screens are quite small, to hire a whole screen and fill it with just explorers. Just because we can.
    Ian Wilkins
    Farnham District Explorer Scout Commissioner

    Jambowlree - World Scout Ten Pin Bowling Competition
    All sections, all countries, runs December 2016 - May 2017
    http://www.jambowlree.org

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  19. #12
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    "Real Scouting" is a lazy criticism. It usually means "what you do is not what I do, so you must be wrong."

    Scouting is about a Balanced Programme. It is does not mean that every activity must fall into any set of rules. It means that the Programme as a whole, measured over all the years that a Scout is in the movement, is Balanced. So take them to the Theme Park, the Cinema, the Bowling Ally AND teach them to cook, camp under canvas, light fires etc. etc.

    If someone criticises our programme I give them a list of everything that we have done in the last few years and ask them what they would like to volunteer to run next year. If they do not volunteer to help they do not have a voice (at least not one that I am going to listen to).

    R.

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  21. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Woodcraft Folk are clear that they are NOT Scouts, but what they do is plain as the nose on your face, scouting in all but name. I would guess today the only real divide between Scouts and Woodies are the uniform and the fact that they have a more political programme.
    I think if the Woodcraft Volk say they are not Scouts and have different values to Scouting we should accept that they are not Scouts, it would be the height of disrespect not to.

    Possibly they are closer to one of those Youth Movements prevalent during the last century who existed to push a single political stance.
    Last edited by Tony Ransley; 21-04-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  22. #14
    Senior Member Mallah's Avatar
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    Does it really need to be classed as any type of Scouting? It's an Activity / Camp that people have the 'choice' to attend or not and the reasons for both are up to them. The time YOU need to stop and think is when people stop taking part. Until then treat it as Happy days

    He who receives a good turn should never forget it; he who does one should never remember it.

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  24. #15
    AESL & AGSL shiftypete's Avatar
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    I kind of see what they mean however badly expressed it was. If Theme Park camp and similar activities were all a Section offered then I might agree with the statement that is not real Scouting. However, I think Theme Park camo is a great different activity to offer along side some more traditional Scouting activities such as hiking, climbing etc and is it great to blow away a few misconceptions such as Scouts only do 'boring' activities (not that I agree that any traditional Scouting activities are boring).

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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