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Thread: Documents for buildings/Groups

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    Documents for buildings/Groups

    Afternoon Everyone

    Sorry if this is not in the correct section but I'm not sure where it fits.

    I have been asked to pull together a list of documents that all Scout Groups MUST have if they have their own HQ.

    The sort of things I can think of so far are Fire Risk Assessment, Insurance, Electrical wiring certificate, Gas certificate, General risk assessments....

    Can anyone else think of ones I have missed.

    Thanks

    Simon

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    FRA is legally required.

    TSA require a general building written RA.

    I suspect most of the others just derive from established need in the latter. Regulation of business premises is actually very weak compared with domestic.

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    Thanks Neil

    I called the TSA yesterday and they didn't seem to have a clue.

    Thanks

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    Asbestos survey

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    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC Leader View Post

    I have been asked to pull together a list of documents that all Scout Groups MUST have if they have their own HQ.
    and your role in scouting is...?

    TM
    going...going...

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    Escouts Team Bloory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merryweather View Post
    and your role in scouting is...?

    TM
    It almost doesn't matter; Although there are lots of separate charities, there are lots without guidance and support. I know of Counties who have had to support districts to support groups who would, if left, cause a chain of liability.

    The trouble with "Must" is that it almost always depends. The Scout Hall we rent has no gas to the property (possibly not even the street) so a gas safety certificate is not needed. I'm looking at a post from Neil which has got me thinking about an activity barn which has low voltage lights charging batteries from solar panels which would probably need different certification to somewhere with three phase supply.

    The age old problem of trustees entering into something without realising what and then having little support again, if you ask me... a list ought to prompt some consideration from some of them?
    Jonathan Bloor
    Escouts Team
    Group Scout Leader - 4th Ashby de la Zouch

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard paintin View Post
    Asbestos survey
    Asbestos Survey is a must. you beat me to it.

    Getting it done properly can be quite expensive though. We tried getting it done on the cheap and the guy doing it moved jobs. His replacement was not as helpful. The quote was 1700. It never got done. But it should have been done.
    Ewan Scott

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Asbestos Survey is a must. you beat me to it.

    Getting it done properly can be quite expensive though. We tried getting it done on the cheap and the guy doing it moved jobs. His replacement was not as helpful. The quote was 1700. It never got done. But it should have been done.
    Is it
    a must? Say on a new building for instance... I know I am being pedantic but in some cases it very much is a must and in others it would be a waste of money?
    Jonathan Bloor
    Escouts Team
    Group Scout Leader - 4th Ashby de la Zouch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloory View Post
    I'm looking at a post from Neil which has got me thinking about an activity barn which has low voltage lights charging batteries from solar panels which would probably need different certification to somewhere with three phase supply.
    A low voltage set up (actually its extra low votlage, low voltage is what you have in your home and high voltage is used in the grid transmission system) would not require any certification at all, nor would you need a qualified electrician to install it so long as you had someone with reasonable understanding of electrics. In fact I don't think any commercial property requires any electrical certifcation in UK by law, that does not mean periodical checking is not a good idea although I would say every 5 years would be fine
    Last edited by shiftypete; 12-05-2017 at 08:02 PM.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

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    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    Senior Member Bushfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloory View Post
    Is it
    a must? Say on a new building for instance... I know I am being pedantic but in some cases it very much is a must and in others it would be a waste of money?
    Fair point. But where does the law draw the line? I don't know.
    Ewan Scott

    It seems that there are a lot of Nawyecka Comanch around....





    Nawyecka Comanch'": "Means roundabout--man says he's going one way, means to go t'other" Ethan Edwards - The Searchers



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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Fair point. But where does the law draw the line? I don't know.
    Anything built after Nov 24th 1999 should not have had any asbestos in it as all forms of asbestos in new buildings were banned by law from that date. So anything less than 17 years old should certainly not need an asbestos survey.

    Peter Andrews AESL of Headingley Pirates ESU, Assistant Group Scout Leader & Webmaster of Falkoner Scout Group
    www.falkonerscouts.org.uk

    Wike, North Leeds District Campsite - www.wikecampsite.org.uk
    www.leeds-solar.co.uk
    Please note all views expressed are my own and not those of any organisation I'm associated with

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    a quiver full of barbs merryweather's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloory View Post
    It almost doesn't matter;
    my reason for enquiring about the OPs role is to do with one of my pet hates that i had when i was in scouting: leaders complaining that they had too much to do and/or not having enough time to spend with their sections on activities but all the while spending lots of time on matters which really should be taken up by others, especially matters that should be undertaken by officers of the GEC.

    if someone rang me and asked to see the group's documents i would have politely referred them to the group secretary, whose contact details were readily available, and asked why did they feel they had to bother me?

    i used to fly in to a struggling group. first thing: stabilise the leadership and run a programme, something at least to keep scouting breathing; following closely, second thing: establish some form of GEC, principally to allow the first thing to be achieved!

    leaders doing this sort of job in a scout group is simply a waste of talent.

    i digress. apologies.

    TM
    Last edited by merryweather; 13-05-2017 at 12:42 AM. Reason: spending the early hours of the morning in my favourite place: the bench on platform 5 wigan north western!
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    Escouts Team Bloory's Avatar
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    I see where you are coming from now TM.

    I am more used to a small district team where perhaps someone with expertise jumps in to do a specific task. Trouble is, this is a specialist area. I might be a suitably qualified letting agent or solicitor but it is a different work area. It is also one where you would think there would be more central guidance.

    If we come back to the thread about the image of buildings, we have some shut behind gates so no-one knows what is going on, or very tatty places being maintained by struggling volunteers when there is a fortune in the bank. Would you think Scouting is a great place to send your children, especially when so many of the sports clubs have had easy access to funds and have raised their game?
    Jonathan Bloor
    Escouts Team
    Group Scout Leader - 4th Ashby de la Zouch

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    Thanks for all the comments.

    My role is essentially an ASL however professionally I work in Fire Safety. The District has asked if I can take on a property role to "try" and help get all the buildings in the District to meet legal and moral obligations.

    A lot of what has been said makes total sense and I know it's not one size fits all but if I can give options to people and support through the process I'm sure I can make it work.

    I know I'm a bit out of my depth but I feel I'm raising the level which is all that counts.

    Thanks again for all your comments.

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    Senior Member Rikki01's Avatar
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    Documents for buildings/Groups

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushfella View Post
    Asbestos Survey is a must. you beat me to it.

    Getting it done properly can be quite expensive though. We tried getting it done on the cheap and the guy doing it moved jobs. His replacement was not as helpful. The quote was 1700. It never got done. But it should have been done.
    Not really a must. Depends when the building was constructed. Really no point doing an asbestos survey on a building built 10 years ago.
    Last edited by Rikki01; 13-05-2017 at 08:41 AM.

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